DA Confusion for the 24th of September, 2021

Get your confusions sorted for this week’s DA on the eve of the AFL Grand Final.

75 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 24th of September, 2021

  1. OMG this is difficult. Not hilarious, but good one. FOIs 5D/22A and 23A then 1A and NW.
    Some new words or meanings. ​Stuck in the SW and a few other places. Trying not to cheat.

  2. Gayle, I agree. Very tricky.
    And watch what I think is an OMG misdirect in 2D. Got me for a while.
    Thought 5D/22A very clever.

  3. Got 2D pretty quickly from the wordplay, and a check on google. I didn’t know it. But yes, a misdirect, or maybe a pointer in the right direction?

  4. Gayle, agree is a pointer. I knew both and picked wrong one initially and then couldn’t make clue work until realised it was a pointer.

  5. Finally all understood.
    Found very tricky eg: 12A, 17A, 26A, 27A, 2D, 8D, 9D and I guess more.
    Plus quite a few truncations used in this one.

  6. 9D and 13A last ones solved. Revealed 8D. No wonder I couldn’t even cheat on that one and the wordplay is a doozie.
    Never heard of 9D. I do know the high points of German prose so kicking myself that 13A took so long.
    I found my struggles were mostly for being led up the garden path by wrong guesses for the definitions, and being fixated on bits of wordplay that I thought I could see, and then couldn’t unsee.
    Just 12A yet to fully parse. I’m guessing ‘droplet’ is the key.

    Definitely a mental workout. Wonder if Mr Astle davised this when he was in the MRI having his brain scanned ?

  7. Also finding it tough. FOIs: 10A, 16D, 3D, 17A (although I get the Rudd but not the heart letter). Then got 5D/22A thanks to Gayle’s talk of it being her FOI, which led to 11A (my fave so far for clever definition subterfuge). Those are all the answers I have so far..

  8. Some tricky words today, but in my wheelhouse so to speak so not too bad. Done in about my usual time.

    FOI 3D, D. LOI 13A (d’oh!) , 9D. Other good starters might be 28A, 25D, 17A, 23A, 24D, 7D.

  9. Ah, thanks DAJunkie and Gayle! I was scratching my head thinking “but why?”. Now it all makes sense.

  10. Andrew T, I’m impressed 3D was your first one in. I was quadruply misled, firstly by ‘stimulants’ and ‘bit into’ which led to something like eatee, or etade, neither of which looked very Chinese. and I’m ashamed to say by ‘warrior’, and then by missing the significance of the whole clue. NHO the answer, so I wouldn’t have recognised it anyway, but I’m a lot better informed now, in recent and ancient history, fact or fiction. Something I’ll probably never need to know again.

  11. I can’t take any intellectual credit for that, Gayle! It just leapt out at me almost immediately.

    Well done on parsing 17A though; I just wrote in what was clearly the answer without considering “stemmed”; I already had the centre letter from 7D.

  12. Yes, that was a struggle. First ones 23a,3d,7d which I suppose is better than none. LOI 12a for which I don’t fully have the wordplay, but give me a while before hinting and I’ll work on it.
    Should 2d be (1,1,1,1,1,1,1)?
    This one gave me a bit of a 24d.

  13. After I’d read all the scary comments here, I very nearly chucked it in today, but I’m glad I didn’t. Some very big smiles and a lot of satisfaction, thank you, DA.

    The wordplay in 8d & 26a are enough to make one’s head spin! And I loved 17a’s “stem”! I wasted time by assuming that 28a ended in “-ful”, and still haven’t worked out its wordplay. I was sure 5d/22a was “what a cheek”, and when I worked it out I thought the definition part of the clue is a bit iffy. That’s not what I mean by that expression.

    As a New South Welshman I’m happy to see 18a’s clue (sorry to be parochial), and it’s good that the third word in 1a isn’t “get”, as seems to be becoming more common (Americanism?).

    I won’t be so pedantic as to suggest that 2d should be (1,1,1,1,1,1,1).

    Hadn’t heard of 20a but have welcomed it to my lexicon.

  14. Tim C: while technically an initialism that term (2D) is commonly used and indeed pronounced whole, so IMO DA has it right as is.

  15. Tim C, we crossed over. Just to assure you I wasn’t accusing you of pedantry!

    If I’m reading 12a correctly, I’ve a quibble. Measure’s of length and volume (quantity) aren’t quite the same.

  16. 28a solved, with a bit of a “D’oh!”, so all completed and understood. Time to gopher a walk.

  17. Graham M, was just going to come here to post along the same lines as your quibble for 12A. However, I was going to offer the rain droplet, which is measure for meteorological purposes up a standardised basin (I don’t know the particulars)

  18. Graham M, Count me in for thinking 28A ended in ‘ful’ until I saw there was more associated with that.

    And thank you. You must be right about 12A, even if DA’s not. I was coming up with all sorts of convoluted wordplay involving dropping ‘let’.

    Seems like I was overthinking today.

  19. To clarify, I did have the same interpretation of 12A. And also, I’m not entirely convinced of my possible explanation.

  20. Does 4d have a mistake in the clue? Should it be Dissident instead of Dissonant?

  21. LOIs 26A, 4D. Didn’t know 4D was a thing, agree with Jason that it would be better suited to be dissident

  22. AC, it’s four points in the old money, which in a typical pluviometer (rain gauge to normal people) is probably rather more than a “droplet”. Trying hard to be charitable, I guess we often say we had “a drop of rain”, and sometimes it’s very small.

  23. I’ll wear the pedant label with pride Graham M. :) I didn’t get the droplet wordplay so came back here and your comment about length and volume made the penny drop and got a nod of agreement from this engineer.
    I’ve never heard 2d pronounced as a word, but there are pronunciation guides on t’internet for it AndrewT. Wonders will never cease!

  24. This has been a real struggle, but a satisfying one. FOI 5/22, 10A, 3D, 25D 18A. Now left with 15A, 26A, 2D, 14D and 16D; and don’t fully understand wordplay for 27A or 4D.

  25. Jason @ 11:57 Interested by your question re dissident vs dissonant. Found a few dictionary entries where they both mean at variance with accepted norms, but the dissident seems to be a bit more anti-authoritarian. I ‘spose it depends which side are you on ? (Pete Seeger song. I wondered who wrote it. The person who did was described as almost a 4D.)

    Amazing the things you learn when you’ve got a DAy off work and can go tripping all over the www.

  26. SB 4D.
    Letters 1-6 anagram (treated).
    Letters 7-10. 5 letter word minus its last (footloose).

  27. Hideous puzzle today. Don’t attempt My sour grapes include:
    2D – not a word
    4D – incorrect usage of “dissonant”
    Too many inelegant constructions and convolutions for my liking. The opposite of clever.
    I note there’s not much discussion and less hints than usual on offer in today’s forum, so I think many will struggle today.

    Or maybe it’s just me…

  28. SB 27A. It’s supposed to be an @lit, as you probably realise from the interrobang,
    I personally spell it with a ‘k’ at the beginning, but then that doesn’t fit the wordplay.
    I think ‘exterior’ and ‘container’ are misdirections in that they are common indicators as to placement of the components of the clue. I’d read the wordplay more as a charade, without the ‘for’ which is superfluous.
    By the time you’ve figured out my convoluted explanation, you’ve probably tackled it.

  29. All out, and almost all understood except for parsing of 9D.
    Mostly understand but 3 letters escape me?

  30. LJ – 9A – I guess the first 3 letters? If so, given by “green”.

  31. I get it now thanks Gayle. But no, I didn’t realise it was an @lit because I don’t know what that means :(
    And now I’ve tackled the other 5 as well, but still not sure of wordplay for some. No matter. I found it very enjoyable. 9A is probably my pick of the week. Also enjoyed 8D, and the visual play in 17A.

  32. SB &lit , sorry, you’re right, not @lit :-) Thankyou for correcting me with such good humour.

  33. FOI was 27A and I’m pleased that I recognized it as an &lit, as I usually have problems with these.

    This as the most difficult DA crossword I’ve seen in a long time.

    Interesting discussion about Letters 1-3 of 12A. In a chemistry lab, a drop is usually thought of as 0.05 millilitres and in meteorology a millimetre is certainly much more than a drop.

  34. As I intimated earlier, I’m uneasy regarding 5d/22a. Is the definition “How dare you”? That’s not how I’d use the expression. To me it means something like “That’s amazing” or even “Who’d’ve thunk it?”

    Am I missing something here?

  35. At the risk of quoting a dictionary Graham M, the phrase appears in Chambers (yes, I know it’s my favourite) as “I never heard anything so surprising, shocking etc.”
    I must admit I didn’t give the definition a second thought when I got 5d/22a but then I’m used to hearing the phrase in my distant past in the North of England to express surprise and shock which I imagine is very similar to “How dare you”. I think it’s less far from the definition than some others today, e.g. “It’s kept in suspense” is true but hardly a definition in 9d, and “head source”? in 19d….. really? Not something I’d pay for. ;)

  36. Tim, I don’t mind 9d & 19d. True, they’re very inexact definitions but I don’t mind a bit of crypticity. It would be difficult to come up with a more precise definition of 9d without verging on becoming a bit prolix, yes?

  37. “Knockers on a string” comes to mind for some reason, but maybe that’s more of a Paul from the Guardian definition. ;)

  38. No Gayle, I wasn’t correcting you – I just don’t know what @lit means. :)

  39. I have just looked at the answers in the paper. 2D appears to me to be a random group of letters. Would someone please explain what it means?

  40. Hated it- got 23a quickly, then an hour to the next one. Second hardest DA that I have encountered. I agree with Brond. 4d Dissonant can’t be charitably put down to misdirection, it’s just plain wrong. And I agree with Graham M re 5/22.

    12a Despite all the pluviometric discussion, I can’t parse 12a. Simple explanation, please.

    17a. I’m not convinced. If stemmed gives you 3, how do you get rid of v- or is stemmed used twice, in different meanings?

    2d and 3d- NHO them, and I hope NHO them again.

  41. 12A: droplet = one millimetre (i mm), but see my comment above. We’re all in this together = unity. Vaccine offering = immunity.

  42. GeoffD 2D is SMS – speak, something I know very little about having come late to this language. Google it and you’ll find what it means. If I type it out here I might get modded. It’s a vulgar extension of an earlier one of just the first 4 letters. Like with most things, the intensity seems to get ramped up. :-) > LOL > ROFL >2D. (Funnily, I and several others of my vintage used to think that LOL meant lots of love.)

  43. Geoff D. The OMG in 2D was DA’s way of pointing to the answer, as OMG is also text-speak and also indicates the intensity in the definition.

  44. Hi Richard,
    Regarding 17A, whilst I didn’t get it without some of the earlier explanations/help, the way I understand it (as a visual) it’s KEVIN, but if one places a stem on the “V” it appears as a “Y”.
    Long time watcher – first time commenter!

  45. Thanks Gayle. I googled 2D and now understand it but I don’t like it much. I don’t text very often and when I do I spell the words out rather than using initials, probably because the people I’m texting are of similar age to me. I also remember when LOL meant lots of love.
    Like Graham M I think there’s a large gulf between the definition and answer to 5D/22A, one being an expression of extreme anger/ indignation and the other of surprise.
    Clearly showing my age today. Overall I didn’t like this puzzle much.

  46. Struggled with this one and needed my husband to give me hints from the answers with five words. I got 14D but can’t parse it. Help please if anyone is still out there?

  47. Just popped back in to see how it was going. Thanks Tim C for the pointer. Very helpful.
    I for one, like Patrick, enjoyed this one enormously, though it was very slow going – the more challenging, the more I enjoy, so long as it’s not themed with sport!

  48. I never find DA easy but pleased to say I’ve finished after consulting Trippers earlier this afternoon special thanks to DAJ, Gayle, TimC and GrahamM. I couldn’t have finished without your inspiration.
    Like many I get easily misdirected and often start off with what I think is the definition.
    I need to work out word play for 14D which for a very ordinary pianist was clever as was 15A. Overall very satisfying.
    It will be interesting to read zinzan’s comments.

  49. Thanks to early warnings about how hard this was, and a full couple of days, I basically left this to back engineer from the answers. No wonder it was so hard. I came here to get help with the parsing I still couldn’t get. All but one is now clear. That one is 8d. Is anyone still around to explain how this works?

  50. Ian S, 14D. I was totally misdirected by ‘Staff leader left’ . Never thought of that ‘staff’.
    ‘shift’ anagram indicator
    fodder = left+27A+ first letter of ‘by’

  51. Sandy, 8d…..
    “devoted” is 2-5 (tenuous for me), “down” (as in drink) is 6-9, “wearing hat” is 1,10,11 reversed (to boost…. mmm OK maybe) and “film’s content is 12,13. It’s pretty tortuous and added to my 24d.

  52. Sandy, 8D. I admit I revealed this, neither getting from definition or wordplay. Even a gap filler-in wouldn’t do it for me with the crossers. Here goes:

    2-5 = devoted, although I don’t think it’s a very good synonym
    6-9 = down, as in a drink
    (to) wearing = containment indicator
    11,10, 1 = hat, reversed, (to) boost, in a down clue.
    12, 13 = f-IL-m’s content

    Not real happy about the two superfluous ‘to’s.

  53. And could I add to Tim C’s wiki post re &lits

    I learned a lot from Crossword Unclued about cryptic clue types when I was off work recovering from surgery. Thankfully I could sit on a chair and use my fingers at the time.
    It saved me from going nuts. Also learned a lot about books of the bible, chess notation, cricket, and other abbreviations useful for solving British crosswords. Thankfully DA doesn’t use these too often., although I’ve had to learn a bit about AFL teams.

  54. Well, I’m all good with everything except parsing 18a. I just can’t see how to get any of the letters. I don’t know what Mitchell refers to which definitely doesn’t help.
    I found this week’s very tough, but it felt even better when I cracked it.

  55. 13A: I did German for 6 years at school so “high points of German” makes sense, but where does the “prose” come in?

  56. Matt, the state library of NSW, in Sydney, is the Mitchell Library. Remove the “tracks” (ry = railway) and voila!

    Brian, I guess it could have been “prose” or “poetry” or “text” or a few other things?

  57. Thanks Tim C and Gayle for the explanation of 8d. That gives a clear indication of why I had to just give up and go to the answers this week. Very convoluted, and Dancer-actor was a pretty wide range of definition.

  58. With 18a, Matt, that was one of the clues I thought i had but was completely off. I saw a hint that it was something to do with NSW early in the thread and had the surname of a certain NSW fast bowling Mitchell which happens to be an anagram of ‘tracks’ with one letter missing. So I assumed ‘k’ must have been the ‘sign’ that was ‘down’. LOL

  59. Thanks Moose. A clever, quirky idea, and I will probably forget the technique by the next time that DA uses it!

  60. If there’s anyone there, parse for 26A please.

    Quibble on 20A: ‘beat’ and ‘nimbly’ should swap places (though that would wreck the surface grammar) for the indicators to be with their indicatees.

  61. johnno2 – 26A – “I” is letter 1. “love” (as in tennis) gives “NIL” for letters 2,8,9. “rum to” is fodder for 3,4,5,6,7

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