DA Confusion for the 16th of October, 2020

Have your confusions sorted out for this week’s DA.

And prepare yourself for the big Tigers game…

78 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 16th of October, 2020

  1. Good morning,
    Not too difficult today for a DA.
    FOIs 25d, 25d, 8d, 7d, 5a and LOI 3d.
    Happy solving.

  2. I was so looking forward to my little reward for the week, but can’t say I enjoyed today’s crossie. Convoluted wordplays, not many smiles, whacky surfaces, definitions way too broad even for DA, and too many football references for me, eg 3D, which I had to reveal with all of the crossers. No way of getting it, and still don’t.
    Maybe should have had that second coffee before I posted. :-(

  3. Gayle – 3D is a term for a good AFL (and I think also cricket) play.

  4. Yes, DAJunkie, I looked it up and understand the def now, and and with second cup of coffee, have got the wordplay. I got stuck on a kind of scorer, a kind of tool, and couldn’t explain the rest. Have to give that one to DA for the misdirect/s.

  5. Come to think of it, I should have been prepared for the footy clues. AS, our Trippers host, has mentioned teams in his preambles in the past 2 weeks. It must be a welcome distraction for long-suffering Victorians.

  6. If it’s full of footy clues, I’ll give up now. After half an hour I’ve solved about a dozen clues. A beautiful day here for outdoor pursuits. See youse all next week.

  7. I need help with 24d…have first and third letters, but am ashamed to admit it still beats me.

  8. Well, NE corner a good place to start, whole lot just tumbled out. Couldn’t find a Nobel Peace Laureate that fitted the letter I have, so I’m probably looking for wrong thing. So just the seven in NE so far.

  9. My husband helped with 3d . I don’t follow afl
    It’s easily googled, then the word play is fairly obvious.
    I hope I don’t give to much away

  10. @ Happy chappy. Ummm …. from your post I take it you have the answer and are looking for the wordplay?

  11. Gayle…even worse than that!!!…I’m away with the pixies as far as the answer goes…can you help?

  12. Found this one more straightforward than the last couple. First ones 14A,2D,5D,10A,6D. LOI 24D and one of my favourites together with 12A and 6D.
    A few dodgy clues including 3d (agreed Gayle).
    Melanie, there’s always 4d for non-Melburnians.

    Good to see the ellipses meaning something again this week.

  13. ArthurC, you’re not on the wrong track with 20a.

    happy chappy, see my previous post for 24d.

  14. @ Melanie, the wordplay for 3d wasn’t obvious to me at the time. I went off on a tangent.
    Re Melbourne-centric, I think DA’s been pretty even-handed in place names.
    What gets me are the definitions, beach, what beach, where in the world, ? I was thinking of one in France, and Alacatraz for the penal site. :-)

  15. Happy chappy …. you’re gonna fall off your chair when you look at the clue again, and your own posts …. and mine… and Tim’s comments about ellipses.

  16. Tim C, I see that 24d was your LOI and one of your favourites….I don’t see anything else…what am I missing?

  17. Gayle ooooooooops! and Tim…………thanks to you both…………..have a good week.

  18. Still laughing after picking myself off the floor…I’m sure you’ll forgive the overkill of my previous post…you have made my day.

  19. No worries happy chappy… I was trying to find a word “dyth” and thinking of synonyms for study and outside… before the penny dropped…

  20. Melanie @8:21, I not sure I agree with you about 26A. Remember what the A stands for in AFL. :)
    I make the scores NSW 2, VIC 1, WA 1, Eurasia 1 and UK 1 for today.

  21. Tim, so was I! I hadn’t heard of dyth, but thought I would find it if I dug deeply enough…the joys of doing cryptics. See you next week.

  22. I’m speaking as a Sydneyite relocated to Hobart 😊
    Thanks for all the assistance everyone xx

  23. All done.
    Got stuck on 22d. Geography is not my strong point.

    I don’t have an issue with 3D, it is a well known expression.

    Some interesting ones.

  24. Good honest DA today. I did enjoy 24D, one of my last in.

    Can someone please explain 1/23A and the first three letters of 16A for me?

  25. I don’t think either of the two AFL references are unfair, and I concur with Tim C’s geographical assessment, which seems a fair spread to all solvers. I particularly enjoyed 8d and (once the wordplay finally sunk in) 1/23a.

    I have it all out, but am still puzzling over the wordplay of 11a, if anyone can help out?

  26. AG – 1A/23A (my pick for best) – read as “M-IS-TREATED”.
    16A – 1,2,3 comes from “supporting”. Rest should now be easier to understand.
    Hope helps.

  27. Thanks, DAJunkie. I guess I see the 1/23 bit, with the last 12 letters being soil-related, yes? I saw the 1-3 present in “supporting” but don’t see how the extraction from it is signified.

  28. You don’t extract anything AG. I think you may have the first letter of the “penal site” incorrect.
    I do wonder for 16a/21d whether the first ‘meat’ is unnecessary and therefore superfluous.

  29. I’m surprised that no-one has commented on the typo in 16A.
    Surely, the first “meat” should be “meet” …

  30. 22D is a real turkey.

    I don’t see the need for ‘AFL’ in 3D. The answer applies to anything really spectacular, particularly in the sporting world.

  31. Tim C…I agree, another good day for the ellipses! And Jack, I think ‘AFL’ may be included in 3D because the colloquial adjectival form of the last word (used only in reference to Aussie Rules) is a synonym for the answer – these 2 words describe the most magnificent feature of our great game.

  32. Hi guys . I’m all done. Has anyone listened to the Conversations Podcast where DA is interviewed by Richard Fidler? Very interesting and a glimpse into the mind of DA- mind you every Friday is a trip inside that brain!!

  33. @Peter I would agree with you about ‘meet’ if it wasn’t followed by a comma. Something’s gone wrong in the editing, unless there’s a third interpretation.

  34. Mary-Jane, thankyou! I’ve heard other interviews but not this one which was 2 years ago almost to the day. David Astle is a polymath, and a wonderful human being. When I first encountered him years ago (only as a setterat that time) I thought he was a curmudgeonly old bloke in an attic, out to make life difficult, but I’ve since learned differently.
    Amazing to spend 2 hours in an MRI machine for the sake of science, and cryptics. How he got to ‘schiavonie’s smashes end up in the net’ was enlightening. Most of all I like his quote from Nietzsche: ‘Retain the seriousness of the chlld at play’.
    That’s probably what we all have in common. Have a great weekend Trippers.

  35. I agree with Jack @1.42. I also ignored the reference to AFL. The definition fits the answer, although I would usually just use the first six letters to describe it.

    All I know about AFL is that one gets six points if one scores a goal and one point if one misses!

  36. Gayle, Peter,
    the third interpretation is that one of the ‘meats’ shouldn’t be there at all.
    It’s a mistake, presumably from the setter.

  37. Is there something esoteric about the term “ellipses”? I can’t relate it to anything in this, or other, DA crosswords.

  38. @ Neanderthal. Tim’s interpretation is the superfluous meats. I was prepared to go with Peter’s interpretation, meets, without the comma. Who knows?

  39. @ Brian, not esoteric but a common device in cryptics, supposedly connecting one clue to another. Today the ellipses were not a cryptic device, but a DAstardly trick, in the definition of 24 down.

  40. Thank you Gayle. I did wonder whether Peter had read my post. I’m still pondering a third interpretation. ;)
    24D was indeed DAstardly and ended up amusing me muchly.

  41. Neanderthal… see my post at 1:00pm… (see what I did with ellipses there…)…

  42. Brian Wheeler. At the risk of giving the game away at this late hour, an ellipsis is 3 24 down(s).

  43. 1A very tasty, but I can’t justify 22d hidden DYTH- not in my 3 dictionaries

  44. Richard, I presume you mean 24D. The answer is not “dyth.” The real answer is the 3 ‘blips’ at the end of the clue. Letters 3 and 4 are the first and last letters of ‘thermodynamics, while the first 2 letters are defined by ‘study’ (a particular subject).

    Anyone who has in fact studied thermodynamics could believe that it might be a pretty tough subject to work into crosswords.

  45. Dear Jack

    Thank you . Yes, I meant 24D . A good deception. Indeed- I dropped TD nearly 50 years ago to focus on quantum mechanics.

  46. Having done applied chemistry, I had to study both thermo and quanto. They were difficult for me 50 years ago and I have no doubt they would still be difficult for me.

  47. I would really appreciate it if someone could explain how you arrive at the answer to 1A 23A.

  48. Rosemary, break up mistreating into three parts. ‘M’ is word 1, ‘is’ is an abbreviation for word 2 and ‘treating’ is a synonym for word 3, together giving a sauce.

  49. I don’t THINK anyone has queried 12A or 13D yet (probably because they’re easy/obvious!) But I’d appreciate a wordplay explanation :-)

    Regarding the meats, I reckon DA’s first written “…tinned meat, lead-free” then thought “…tinned, lead-free meat” was better, or vice versa, and forgotten (being a pencil and paper man) to rub the first meat out! Been there, done that!

  50. All done foi 6d loi 3D after consulting Trippers and thinking, as a cricket tragic I agree with earlier comments re no need for AFL
    Liked 14a 20a 22d and 28a
    Re 16a/21d I ignored first meat unless you’re soused to interpret as a homophone for meet?
    Re 12a. Defn 1st word aka occupation
    Wordplay guesthouse enclosing a study approach followed by synonym for say

  51. Substitute supposed for soused in my post just now Ill have to watch predictive text more closely

  52. “Soused” works, Ian! ;-) [if The Age wasn’t a morning paper, I’d be tempted…]
    Thanks for 12A – DA has a special talent for including indicators in his misdirection; “say” had me off on the ‘as an example’ tangent, and the homophone tangent before that.
    What about 13D? Anyone?

  53. While I am familiar with the maths of ellipses I had not come across the term used as a form of punctuation. Understand 24d now. Thanks for the help.

  54. johnno2 13 D
    anagram (customised) four wl (wheel emptied) containing (to carry) ship as in a verb for mail or post
    That was one I retro- parsed I have to admit.

  55. Re 16A/21 D. I think both “meats” are fine. The comma gives the signal to ignore the first reference and go to the refinement.
    Johnno2, “customise” next two words, with 2nd emptied. Then insert “mail”.

  56. If you ignore the first ‘meat’ R&R, then what purpose does it serve? To me that defines redundancy.

  57. Brian Whelan, it is interesting that the mathematical ellipse shares its etymology with the syntactical ellipsis. The plural for both is ellipses. The Greek word elleipse (έλλειψη) means a falling short. Hence, in syntax it is a shortage (of words?) represented by 3 dots. In the geometry of conic sections it is that section produced by the cutting plane making a smaller angle with the base of the cone than the sides of the cone (hence falling short of the angle between the base and the sides).
    I’m now inspired to look at the words parabola and hyperbola.

  58. Thanks Gayle and DoubleR, contemporaneous posters!
    And who doesn’t retroparse; I tell learners to expect to do this at least 3/4 of the time.
    Fascinating etymological insights, Tim! DA would feel very validated! :-) Though I now shudder to think what Jack and Richard might have for us thermodynamically and quantumly!

  59. After trying on and off since Friday morning I finally got to only having to come here fir 24D.
    Thanks for being here Trippers !!

  60. And why does my phone’s system think I want to write about conifers when I really wanted the first three letters of 16A ?

  61. Jupiter, those letters come from “supporting”. Funnily enough the word you intended when the conifers came along!

  62. I have the answer but how do the last two letters of 20A come from the wordplay?

  63. I must be missing somthing obvious because no one else has asked but can someone please help me with the wordplay for 10a, letters 3,4,5?


  64. Hi Jason, I also came for that, and have now googled – they are French for wall.
    Initially I thought etch wall was an indicator to use the first and last letters of France for 1,2 (which to be frank, didn’t really make any sense, but I was grasping at straws

  65. Thanks LJ. I actually thought I’d tried that in Google Translate but must have fat-fingered it on my phone at the time :)

  66. Can someone please explain the parsing of 3D? I think I know the answer and can understand letters 1-6 but can’t work out how you get to the last two letters which I think “game scorer” refers to. Unless I really don’t have the answer!

  67. Hi Lachlan, I didn’t get it until late myself, and only after I revealed the answer. Just couldn’t get it from the wordplay but as it turns out it’s one of the ‘simpler’ options, ie an anagram with a subtraction.
    Go off game scorer wrecking > anagram (wrecking ) of game scorer minus (off) go.

  68. @Gayle that’s so funny I was completely on the wrong track, lucky I didn’t write it in! I thought it was STREAKER. So go off being STREAK (like, streak away – admittedly a bit of a stretch, but it is DA we’re talking about) and then couldn’t work out how game scorer could be ER. Because to some people streakers could be seen to be wrecking an AFL game… or so went my reasoning.

  69. Nearly finished the whole thing and have the word for 6D but can’t figure out the parsing! Have noticed it was a few peoples foi so we either have it wrong or are missing something glaringly obvious. Pls help!!

  70. Hi Romy could it be that you have the singular and not the plural of that word? The star student is letters 1,2,5,6. And “that’s” (that is) is enrolled (inserted) into the middle of the star student bit (so letters 3 and 4).

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