DA Confusion for the 10th of July, 2020

Have your confusions sorted out on this DA of the second-wave lockdown.

Do it.

63 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 10th of July, 2020

  1. All done. Reasonably straight forward.
    Still thinking about wordplay for 24a/6d. Will have another look when I wake up.

    FOI 9a
    LOI 10a

  2. Typical DA today, not real hard though.
    FOIs 26d, 5d, 8d, 29d
    LOIs25a, 23d
    Happy solving.

  3. Agree, pretty straight forward. First ones in were the three across rows in the north, and the outside 1d and 8d.
    Last one in was 3d because I was trying to solve it from wordplay. Only after coming back to the definition did it hit me and parsing confirmed.
    Managed to solve most of 24/6 from wordplay then filled in the rest and parsed what was left. IMHO 24/6 is just plain silly.
    I don’t get the indicator in 13/7.

  4. All done but delayed because I had the wrong painter for 20D. Fell into DA’s trap of deliberate misdirection? Don’t ignore the homophone indicator!

  5. Geoff,
    I kicked myself on 10a because I did know the word. I was looking for the obscure and missed the blatantly obvious. There were a couple of clues like that today.

  6. That was I think the fastest DA I’ve ever completed.

    FOI 9A, 8D, LOI 4D, 20D – I also got the wrong painter!

    Other good starters might be 23D, 25A, 14A, 4A.

  7. Late start, 16D FOI, followed by 21A, 18A. But little beyond those as yet.

  8. After an hour I’d only got three. I was about to chuck a tantrum and start throwing things, but it started to fall into place pretty quickly thereafter. Still a few to go. I’m intrigued, Andy W, that 26d & 29d were among your first ones in!

  9. All done. Quite enjoyable again today. 20d centred on two people I’d never heard of, although I am the proud owner of a 20d 23d.

  10. Michael Connelly and Titus Welliver would probably be flattered by the inclusion of 20D

  11. “Geoff M says:
    10 Jul 2020 at 11:17 am
    All done. Quite enjoyable again today. 20d centred on two people I’d never heard of, although I am the proud owner of a 20d 23d.”

    Don’t know of him either, …he’s quite a tool.

  12. Last week my first name appeared first time ever in xword I’ve done. This week daughter’s name though different spelling

  13. Finished and all OK, I think, probably a few clues not full understood, as usual.

  14. First ones 5D,23D,25A,18A,16D. LOI 4D (not the best clue I thought). Favourites 17A,3D,19D. The last half was done pretty quickly.

    Like you Geoff M, I recently bought a 20D/23D and I’m impressed with it. I had heard of 20D, who I probably remember because of his fantastic first name.

  15. I’ve never watched a cooking show so I’m at a bit of a disadvantage I think…

  16. Melanie, many things take a long time to cook — too long for a cooking show. How might they get around this?

  17. It’s a phrase you will almost certainly have heard; more from actual cooking shows in earlier eras than the reality TV ones now.

    I would say it’s something of a meme, so well known it’s used in other contexts.

  18. Without giving any hints to this specific clue, I’d love to know how people go about solving something like 16D. It seems so dense with possible wordplay – lots of little short words (‘Old PM is’) look like anagram fodder, ‘welcoming’ could be a container, ‘old king’ could mean digging up some royal family trees or just the letter K, ‘rising’ suggests a reversal, ‘princess’ suggests going back to that royal family tree for either part of the wordplay or the definition.
    Again, without any hints for this particular clue (I want to crack it myself), how do you sort through all the possible wordplays and red herrings?

  19. That’s the challenge to the grey matter, Will, to which we’re all addicted! The sense of accomplishment after initial frustration. I’d rather this than some of the lazy, one-dimensional contrived acronyms found in crosswords by some lesser compilers!

  20. When I came to 16D I already had letters 2 and 8, so “Old PM” gave it away immediately, I didn’t even read the rest of the clue. Looking now I see no anagrinds in there, even given DA’s elliptical ones.

    “Princess” is almost always the one in that answer, or her sister in law.

    “old King” could have been OK or OR, it is true. But not this time!

  21. Bah! Got it now. The last letter had me looking for a more continental European princess type name…

  22. Andrew T,
    The answer jumped out at me, immediately, as well. Then I worked backwards for the wordplay.
    “Old King” could, also, be “Cole“.
    I agree with you on the “Princess”: they usually are the two options.

  23. Will I started with old pm
    Princess is usually two letters
    Rising indicates placing letters backwards

  24. My LOI was 4D and, looking at it afterwards, it is my favourite of the day. The wordplay is very clever when you think about who Word 1 was.

  25. Managed to solve 24A/6D based on the discussion above, without resorting to the wordplay, the first part of which remains a mystery. Thanks everyone.

  26. I w ahead of my schedule, I’ve done all except that LOI for a few people – 4d.
    Help welcome for that.

    ps do I read correctly 1.59 am Margaret!
    Is that a record?

  27. GeoffD 1st part of 24 A wordplay – think judicial for “report tries”
    Phil – 4 D – double definition. I agree with Jack – a funny clue. Think Jules Verne (or have I got that wrong?)

  28. @Julienne, I don’t get your double def interpretation for 4D. I thought of it as a charade. 3, 5. Definition last 2 words, as in a newspaper or an essay..

    @ Phil , I don’t know about Margaret but this work from home thing and the digital version of the crossie available at midnight is turning time on its head.
    DS now, my favourite after DA.

  29. DS a bit challenging today i found.
    David Sutton. I’ve tried to look him up. He doesn’t seem to need contact with solvers. It probably says a lot more about me who’d like to tell him how much I enjoy a particular clue.

  30. Thanks Julienne and Gayle. I’ve got it now, the answer is an abbreviation I hadn’t heard of, I think?

  31. Can someone explain the wordplay for 20D? I’ve got the answer but can’t work out the moonshine bit!

  32. Phil,
    I stay up until midnight to get a jump on doing the crossword. I do what I can then let the “little grey cells” percolate overnight to do some more in the morning. This time I managed to get it all out; in between playing games, on my iPad, and watching repeats of the Tour de France. The time clocked in at one hour and twenty minutes. I’m sure others do it faster. I tend to get stuck on the last two or three; hence the “percolation” method. I thought 4D was not the usual way of saying it, but I got the Nemo reference. In my case I’m retired so the tyranny of the clock is not as strong.

  33. Tony,
    20d Another meaning for Moonshine is “talking nonsense”. The “on tape” is a homophone indicator.

  34. AndyW. I liked the way DS clued 12a and 17a, neither of which I knew, but fair wordplay. I know there are different camps of setters and solvers, some who care about the surface and some who don’t. I enjoy the effort DS puts in to make interesting and plausible surfaces or ‘stories’.

    My first thought about this week’s DA was it must have been one of his older ones, as quite a few of the surfaces were odd, 24/6 for example. These days DA seems to more often than not write good surfaces, with quite a few laughs, or groans, or gotcha moments. But I didn’t find that today.

  35. Gayle,

    I didn’t like 12a in DS in particular as there was no indication that “fairground” doesn’t mean “fairground” in any sense. If you are going to misuse the English language, the clue at least needs a question mark to alert the solver to unsound wordplay. Also, regarding surface: 12a doesn’t make any real sense IMO.

  36. Gayle, as I mentioned a couple of weeks back, I often find Saturday’s cryptic to be almost as satisfying as Friday’s. Last week’s had a few too many lazy anagrams, which surprised me. Perhaps last week DS was in a hurry.

  37. PeterW,
    I agree that 1 a in DS is not one of his best surfaces, but the ‘lift and separate’ indicator has become so common now that most setters I know, including DA, don’t mark it with a ?

    Re today’s DA, I’m still intrigued by the indicator in 13/7. It has to be ‘vain’ or ‘in vain’ if ‘in’ is doing double duty, but I don’t understand why.

  38. Gayle,
    I missed the “lift and separate” indicator – which word is that? “Most setters”? Excluding the Fairfax setters, which ones are they? You will almost never see a clue like 12a in a UK crossword, and if you did, it would have a question mark.

    Peter W

  39. PeterW
    To clarify my comment, I didn’t mean to say that there was an indicator instructing to separate the word, just that in these cases you need to separate the word to get the indicator.
    I’ve come across many examples of these in British crosswords, unmarked, but I mostly do the Guardian so I suppose they would be the ones most likely to be ‘rule breakers’. I see it as just another tool in the setter’s box, in the same way as punctuation and capitalisation is often deliberately ‘misused’ to mislead the solver. For me it just adds to the fun in this game of words.

  40. Still hanging out for enlightenment on the indicator in DA’s 13/7. Anyone?

  41. Gayle, as far as I can see, “vain” is an anagrind. An unusual one, but this is DA after all.

  42. Geoff M – as in “take someone’s name in vain,
    use someone’s name in a way that shows a lack of respect” perhaps?

  43. Thanks Geoff M and Sue E.
    i should have looked it up! I found one synonym ‘failed’ and an archaic one ‘foolish’ . Now I’m feeling both. :-(

  44. Finished late foi 1D loi 11D
    I liked 9A and 12A
    Haven’t worked out word play for 25A
    My take on 13A is word 4 gives first word of answer 5th word gives letters1-3 of second word of answer anagram of words 6,7and 8 gives last letter of second word of answer and third word of answer I took vain as an anagram indicator?

  45. Thanks GeoffM I fell for DA’S misdirection thinking the wings referred to shake
    Rather than digging

  46. [quote]PeterW says:
    at 11:41 am
    I didn’t like 12a in DS in particular as there was no indication that “fairground” doesn’t mean “fairground” in any sense. If you are going to misuse the English language[/quote]

    In this forum its only ok for DA to misuse the English language, or for cryptic to be definition based i.e. like quick- and vice versa etc…I get it.

    The fact that there’s no DS forum required, says more about who is adhering to rules more often. I find DS more challenging, stimulating and in the end finally do-able

  47. I’m still not happy with 4D. If Nemo gives 1-3 and going places gives 4-8 then that doesn’t work. The name of the 1-3 was The Nautilus. Nemo was the captain. If it’s a double definition, then ‘going places’ has no use in the clue. I’m assuming that the last two words in the clue are the definition. Anyone still out there who can explain please?

  48. I don’t know Viv but Jack at 4.49 on Friday had a chuckle over 4d. Could be you’ve got it. Nemo heads the sub?

  49. Viv,
    I’ve already tossed the paper but from memory, the definition was the first bit and then the rest suggested places Nemo would go (‘Nemo’s going places’ ?).
    Being inextricably a submarine captain and toilets on a boat/ship being ‘heads’, wouldn’t Nemo likely go (for a leak) in a sub head ?

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