89 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 3rd/4th of February, 2012”
I liked 28A/7D, because even though I’d never heard of the album I could get it from the wordplay. Nice find in 21D. New indicator (to me) in 13D, but clear in its meaning. I also liked 23D.
I didn’t know the Australian version of 18A (though I’ve certainly done it).
Is 15A ridiculously shallow, or deeper than I can fathom?
Hi Rupert. I thought it was pretty easy today. I didn’t goo ooh or aah for any of them unlike last week.
I have never heard 8D called that. Never will either I think.
24A is a new term for me. 8A is old.
I’m sure he’d be 8D furious if someone called him that.
Did you mean 18A is old?
I meant 18 has been since I was a kid albeit one meaning far longer than the other.
All done early today. Wordplay for 17D?
24A is new to me as well. OR’s is the term i’m familiar with.
Got 10A, 14A and 28A early in the piece which really opened things up.
With 15A Rupert i’m leaning towards the prior, but in saying that it was one of the last i solved
17D: It’s early, so I’ll try not to be too helpful ;)
OK = affirmitive; doctor = repair; mess = anagrind.
17D: Sorry, not repair at all.
Doctor in the sense of doctoring the results.
Thanks Rupert. Not his most elegant clue(IMO) .
I thought 17D rather good. I thought 1A was lame…I would have come up with that.
1A: How about “President conceals love of acquisition”?
1A: Or “Hiding place for bills?”
Only two in the south-west corner to go.
Is ‘issue’ the def for 22D?
And is ‘let go’ the def for 26/27A?
Carl, issue relates to first 3 letters, spectacles to the last 2.
Thanks Mike.
Much too young for 22D, and I wouldn’t have got it without the wordplay. This answer gave me 26/27 in an instant.
Relatively easy puzzle today.
All done except 25 down. Pattern ?A?A – can’t figure what DA means. I now “ANA and “NANA” are cyclone names used in that area (Atlantic Ocean). Enlightenment from out there, please?
… of course I meant “I know …” not “I now …”
25D: He is a cricketer
26A/27A: Liked the mini theme, but had to wait for 13D or 19D (two of the last four I got) to know whether it was going to be second or third person.
Hi all – forum noon alert. I agree with the general sentiment that this week is a lot easier than last week’s madness. All done, but I can’t resolve 20A. Help?
Sorry, I meant noob alert!
Ello!
Rupert cheers for help with 25D.
3D wordplay anyone?
5A – zip clues letters 3 and 4? as in SFA (try the urban dictionary). If so – haha, if not, enlighten me dear wordsmiths…
Where do the last 4 letters of 14A come from? Foster?
@AttMatt, re 20A: Assualt = anagram. Want more?
3D: Wax you put on your shoes; without is a deletion indicator.
5A: Yes, it is Ms. Adams (not so sweet on this occasion)
14A: Rear (of a boat), inadequate = minus one letter.
20A: The answer is the genre of show of which Underbelly is an example.
Ok nice, clearly need to brush up on my wax knowledge… =)
Fanny Adams – haha
15A: oops – now I feel inadequte =)
You’re the boss Rupert – thanks!
doubly inadequAte* =)
As Lady Gaga and I are poles apart, I feel justified in asking, re 28A, 7D: There was a 1944 British film with a three word title, the first word a woman’s name, the middle word being ‘by’ , ending with something bright. Has DA (or Gaga) used the first and last words in reverse as the answer to this clue? Haven’t read any of the stuff above yet, want to get as far as possible without seeking hints, but pop stars????
And another: Underbelly. Have seen references to it in TV guide. Didn’t appeal. Havc to reform David’s viewing habits to conform with mine. Lost on that one.
Got most of the way very quickly today – usually still going on Sunday. But haven’t got 25D yet – a West Indies cricketer?
Thanks Joel & Rupert,
Seems I (we!) were using our feet instead of our eyes in 17D, which caused 20A to make us an offer we couldn’t understand.
Arthur, you need know nothing about Lady Gaga as DA might just have easily worked ‘a glad gay’ into the clue, if you get my drift!
25D: @Victor – yes
28D/7A: Nothing to do with Lady Gaga. The band in 10A/4D are getting on for your age, Arthur, so no excuses for not having heard of them (though you may not know this album – I didn’t).
I’m doing OK this week so it must be an easier one as others have said already. The two to go are at 16D and 24A.
18A The acronym is well known I think but I’m not sure what the ‘gives a ride to’ is all about?
15A I have the answer but ‘flag”?
For me there were a couple of good DA moments this week; 23D with its ‘saw’. Very good use of that word. Also the ‘zip’ in 5A ! He didn’t take the easier musical way out or the football organisation initials (this time).
Arthur, Rupert may well be right but the ‘folk legends’ did get together almost 44 years ago and were extremely well known for a time. I hate to admit it but I’ll be seeing just how they have fared over the years at Byron Bay this Easter!
Misread your note, Rupert, apologies! We are in agreement!
Had next to nothing in the bottom half for quite some time, but got it all out pretty quick after 17d went in . Have got most of the wordplay queries from above comments, might be a bit dim but I don’t see the taxi in 1d?
Enjoyed 10a/4d, 25d,22d,13d and 18a . Cluing of zip in 5a was a bit cheeky in a family newspaper!
Thanks for the hint Robin, that narrowed down my search for folk legends. I have the answer now (I hope) but the wordplay completely escapes me.
Unlike everyone else, I’m struggling to make a start on this one, don’t think I had enough sleep last night
My daddy was an engineer
My brother drives a hack
My sister takes in laundry
While the baby balls a jack
And it don’t look like
I’ll ever stop my wanderin’
This James Taylor song helped me, BRD.
5A I agree with you about the family newspaper as we all know it has nothing to do with Miss Adams really…
nn you can break it up as (steaming cropped Times = 1 word) (photo – smooth = 2 words) (champ in recital)! Hope that helps.
Tks Robin, much obliged, not a usage I was familiar with . Tried all sorts of things with ‘cab’ and ‘hansom’ but couldn’t get anything to work with the joint.
I think this was my fastest completion yet. I agree that it lacked the brilliance of DA’s best, but it’s good to spend Saturdays on other things as well from time to time. I don’t recall coming across 24A with that meaning, but I’m not often engaged in discussion of matters military. I presume it’s derived from the expression which is often reduced to its initials, OR.
Well, after ripping the grid to shreds with ballpoint, repented and looked again. Re 17D. This is a command I used to give to the assembled bods (about 1500 of them) before CO’s parade but I can’t understand the clue. The clue given me above, re 28A, 7D by Robin suggests I am wrong in what I have put in, related to the 1944 film starring James Mason, Stewart Granger and Phyllis Granger. ‘Glad gay’ Robin? Can’t make the connection. I still only have 11 or 12 solved (of which a couple maybe wrong) brain not helping much today.
Sorry, Arthur. Did not mean to confuse. 28A, 17D looks at first like some unheard-of jam session between Lady Gaga and the folk legends in question which lead to an obscure recording on an album. Happily it is not and, as Rupert enjoyed discovering, it can be worked out from the letters making up the 13 in the two word answer. ‘one’ = I, together with words 2 – 4 of the clue. ‘Jammed’ is the anagrind. The answer is what you experience if you stay up all night and it’s also the title of an LP by the folk legends.
Clear as mud Robin, am wondering if I have the right group? A trio who sometimes teamed up with a young member?
You have them nn!
Try ‘steaming’ = angry with the last letter missing?
‘Times’ as in 4″ x 2″?
‘photo’ as in not moving?
‘smooth’ as in with an orbital tool from Bunnings?
‘champ’ in the biblical sense (of teeth) after the weeping and wailing (homophone!)? Any good?
28A/7D: A 1982 studio album, if Wikipedia is to be believed. The third track is found on the NZ and Australian flags.
17D: @Arthur, look up and see my posts at 9:41 and 9:43 yesterday morning for hints on the wordplay.
Thanks Robin, that makes a bit more sense. Was trying to crop Times from steaming leaving “amng” which made no sense at all!
make that “ang”
I see I was totally wrong with my 28A, 7D. The ancient film to which I referred was called ‘Fanny by Gaslight’ , and I had ‘eyes right’ as the command. Robin, I’m sorry, but I haven’t a clue what it is about. So, I surrender totally on this one. Have just completely ripped it to shreds, so I won’t be tempted to waste further time on it. Try again next week.
“Fanny by Gaslight’? Things have changed, haven’t they Arthur? That certainly wouldn’t get an Oscar nomination for ‘subtlety in titling’ these days… although it might get a run on some pay TV channels?
@Arthur, you were right on 17D, and close with 28A (just a few hours off).
Thanks for confirmation on 17D Rupert. I had it but don’t get it. Presume OK refers to the second word, but no idea on the rest of the wordplay.
Am getting very close to doing an Arthur and ripping this one up. Have about half a dozen answers so far after working on it (on and off and between frequent interruptions from family members) for about 3 hours. The fact that most of you think it was easier than last week’s is only adding to my frustration. Would never have got 28A 7d without above hints.
Will ponder the underbelly one now, but, like Arthur, it isn’t something I’d watched.
17D: OK is letters 2-4 of the first word. Doctor is letters 1-3 of the second word. Remaining letters are “the”, messed.
thanks Rupert
I’m with nn on the frustration of everybody saying how easy this one is! I’ve just come back to it after a visit from grandchildren – I was really struggling, but they seem to have stirred up the little grey cells a bit, so I’m now there or thereabouts. Would never have got the parsing of some of these without comments on here – still can’t fathom the ‘madcap bout’ bit in 12a
I’m struggling with madcap bout too Mary. Best I’ve got so far is a word for mad without the first letter (i.e. cap it, although decap might be more to the point). Am reading bout as (a)bout, a containment indicator.
Shouldn’t 5A be fling zip into a Xmas tree? The first “a” is redundant. I thought most Christmas trees here were pine anyway (at least in Victoria)
Is 13d missing a containment indicator?. def is a bit off too, they are “rules” and can forbid as well as allow.
Did like 23d
For Mary and nn. There is a strong connection between the compiler and the answer to 12A. Think American law enforcement, and A stands for … It is two words, with a letter off each, joined to make the answer. That was one of only a dozen clues I solved.
thanks Arthur, have the answer, just pondering some of the wordplay. Got the Enron bit, my take on the rest is above
I think I’ve just got 12A ‘madcap bout’ looking at it. Is it madcap = BATTY with B out = ATTY?
18A wordplay anyone? How does ‘gives a ride’ fit the answer?
Also The ‘flag’ in TITLE? 15A
@nn – yes, I thought the same for 12, but if ’bout’ is the containment indicator, then surely the ‘in’ is unnecessary? Likewise, I agree there seems to be one ‘a’ too many in 5. (Don’t be silly, there isn’t an ‘a’ in ‘five’!)
I took ‘prolong’ as the containment indicator in 13- ie stretch from the inside.
Robin – it’s an aussie expression for carrying an extra person on your bike.
With 15A, I think the first three words are just the def. giving two examples when one might have been enough.
and yes, that’s the way I saw 12A.
@robin, 18a – I think it’s ‘gives a ride to’ as in ‘makes easy for’, as one of the meanings of the answer can be a soft shot in tennis – but if it’s one of Federer’s drop-shots then all bets are off!
I assumed 15a was just a triple definition, with the ‘flag’ being the weakest.
While we’re nit-picking, did anybody else hesitate over the second letter of the first word of 26a? If ‘let go’ is in the present tense, as it should be to match ‘solve’, then surely the clue is transitive and the answer is sort of intransitive, if you see what I mean.
I took ‘let go’ to be be past tense.
Robin I think you are right about 12A and Mary too with in being the containment indicator.
Not thrilled with prolonged as a containment indicator in 13d though. I read letters 1,2,3,4 and 9 as “prolonged visit”, apart from the fact that prolonged doesn’t imply contained IMO.
15A Flag is what you win in AFL, most other sports have a cup or a shield etc.
18a is slang we used as kids meaning to give someone else a ride on your bike, usually sitting in front of you on the crossbar while you peddled. If no crossbar, then sat on the handlebars or maybe behind you on the luggage rack. Probably illegal these days (might have been then too!)
@GB – so if let go is past and solve is present, did you put got or get in the answer?
Thanks Mary and nn for the two aussie expressions. I do not think I have ever heard the bicycle one but I had sort of half twigged the flag but don’t watch AFL so it didn’t come to me. Another one is ‘pennant’ in some sports?
All in all it is a DA I got very close to finishing unassisted so there is hope yet! It has also another thought provoker, whether it be about 1944 movies or the lyrics of songs we grew up with. I still live with the words of the folk legends in mind today when they sing “a father’s hell will slowly go by…” !
Sorry Mary, I see what you mean now. It has to be present tense, so I should have GET.
Should he have used something like ‘to be let gone’ (which wouldn’t scan very nicely).
I should have paid more attention at school.
Addicted? I patiently restuck the torn puzzle, and after a while, things started to flow. It eventually occurred to me that the musical trio/foursome were deeply involved. I had heard of them, vaguely, don’t think I ever heard any of their music. Now only four to go, I think. 11 & 20A, 9 & 13D.
Delete 13D from above list, good clue for a simpleton such as I. Is 9D a dance? My word finer wouldn’t give me one to fit the letters I have. I have a possible (?) for 11A, synonym twerp, but can’t see any connection with clue except dope and ‘can rebound’. But the smack heroin bit??? If I could get first word of 20A, I think I’d soon finish.
Arthur 9D is a dance, probably from your era or thereabouts.
I think you are on the right track for 11A. Read the first syllable backwards to get the can, second syllable is with with the H deleted (smack = delete??) the Heroin (H)
20A Underbelly supposedly chronicles actual crimes as opposed to fictional.
Thanks, nn, I did sort out the whole clue there straight after my last post. As to the dance, I did take some lessons ca 1949, I think. Pride of Erin, Modern waltz, Barn dance, Tangoette, (?), can’t rember any more. Long time ago. I have letters 2, 4, & 6, but no idea at this time. Anyway, its time for supper and bed. Alarm goes off at 0530.
Arthur – sounds like you had the dancing bug, but went to the wrong lessons.
I think this clue might bug Arthur for quite some time, enough to give him the jitters.
not sure why you’d want to get up at 0530 Arthur, but wake me up before you go go and I’ll give you another hint.
nn, our 0530 start has been a practice for several years. I have a pill to take 30 mins before breakfast, which is at 0600, Mrs C likewise. We have a daily Bible reading (from a booklet called Our Daily Bread) and prayer time before breakfast each day. The newspaper gets here before breakfast, she starts on the Quick crossword while I read the Letters page over breakfast.
The good news is, I just finished DA, finally realising what the missing word was in 20A, which in turn gave me the beer-pitcher dance of 9D. So, free to watch the cricket this arvo. Cheers all!
glad you got the dance Arthur I was running out of ideas for hints!
I found it very interesting that some people have suggested DA’s “zip” in 5a may be inappropriate for a “family newspaper” (a what?! are there non-family newspapers?). But, dear DA Trippers, the Fanny Adams version of the phrase precedes the other by miles. Fanny Adams was an 8-year-old who was brutally butchered in Hampshire, UK, in 1867. A popular song was written about her called Sweet Fanny Adams. A couple of years after the high-profile case, the Royal Navy switched from salt beef to dodgy tinned meat and began referring to it as Sweet Fanny Adams, after the song and because they joked that Fanny’s butched remains must surely be what they were eating. Sweet Fanny Adams soon became naval slang describing anything that was worthless or of poor quality. It was shortened to Sweet FA, which then evolved into the profane version popular today.
25D wrapped up this week’s crossword for me, and I shook my fist and cursed DA’s name when the eureka moment hit. Caribbean whirlwind indeed.
Posted all this over the weekend using my phone, but it never appeared, so I had another go with the computer at work. Hope this works…
I must say I was very surprised at how many people aren’t down with dinking, or double dinking even! That word has been Aussie slang amongst kids for decades, at least since the 1940s when my mum was a kid and still used today.
That’s a great story, KM. I never knew the history of Sweet Fanny Adams.
I have been in Australia for 30 years now but was nowhere near being a child when I got here. I have had three kids who all had bikes but I have never heard of dinking!
You’re right KM – the proper expression was double dinking when I was at school!
For me, it was either a Double, or a Dink. Interchangeable but not together.
Re 15a, I reckon you all got the wrong tram on this. Flag is a term for paving stones or tiles, cup relates to the normal breakfast refreshment therefore ti (t)le makes sense
Thanks, Barry. I was hoping 15A wasn’t as lame as it looked. Unfortunately, I don’t see a container indicator.
[For those who’ve thrown the paper away already] 15. Flag or cup name (5)
While “Flag” = TILE is a good one, and “cup” = T is fine, I don’t see how “or” indicates that one is inside the other. If you could explain “or” = T that would be better, as “cup” is a common container indicator.
Nup. barry dalton is trying too hard. No way is it ti(t)le.
It’s a double definition.
“Flag or cup” is a sufficiently interesting combo to make it DA-worthy
Name is the other side.
And the surface seems ok to me.
15A double def or triple def?.My first assumption was the same as Mary, i.e. triple def.
Flag,cup and name are all titles. Did the clue need or as the second letter?
For it to be a double def then cup name must = title.
I liked 28A/7D, because even though I’d never heard of the album I could get it from the wordplay. Nice find in 21D. New indicator (to me) in 13D, but clear in its meaning. I also liked 23D.
I didn’t know the Australian version of 18A (though I’ve certainly done it).
Is 15A ridiculously shallow, or deeper than I can fathom?
Hi Rupert. I thought it was pretty easy today. I didn’t goo ooh or aah for any of them unlike last week.
I have never heard 8D called that. Never will either I think.
24A is a new term for me. 8A is old.
I’m sure he’d be 8D furious if someone called him that.
Did you mean 18A is old?
I meant 18 has been since I was a kid albeit one meaning far longer than the other.
All done early today. Wordplay for 17D?
24A is new to me as well. OR’s is the term i’m familiar with.
Got 10A, 14A and 28A early in the piece which really opened things up.
With 15A Rupert i’m leaning towards the prior, but in saying that it was one of the last i solved
17D: It’s early, so I’ll try not to be too helpful ;)
OK = affirmitive; doctor = repair; mess = anagrind.
17D: Sorry, not repair at all.
Doctor in the sense of doctoring the results.
Thanks Rupert. Not his most elegant clue(IMO) .
I thought 17D rather good. I thought 1A was lame…I would have come up with that.
1A: How about “President conceals love of acquisition”?
1A: Or “Hiding place for bills?”
Only two in the south-west corner to go.
Is ‘issue’ the def for 22D?
And is ‘let go’ the def for 26/27A?
Carl, issue relates to first 3 letters, spectacles to the last 2.
Thanks Mike.
Much too young for 22D, and I wouldn’t have got it without the wordplay. This answer gave me 26/27 in an instant.
Relatively easy puzzle today.
All done except 25 down. Pattern ?A?A – can’t figure what DA means. I now “ANA and “NANA” are cyclone names used in that area (Atlantic Ocean). Enlightenment from out there, please?
… of course I meant “I know …” not “I now …”
25D: He is a cricketer
26A/27A: Liked the mini theme, but had to wait for 13D or 19D (two of the last four I got) to know whether it was going to be second or third person.
Hi all – forum noon alert. I agree with the general sentiment that this week is a lot easier than last week’s madness. All done, but I can’t resolve 20A. Help?
Sorry, I meant noob alert!
Ello!
Rupert cheers for help with 25D.
3D wordplay anyone?
5A – zip clues letters 3 and 4? as in SFA (try the urban dictionary). If so – haha, if not, enlighten me dear wordsmiths…
Where do the last 4 letters of 14A come from? Foster?
@AttMatt, re 20A: Assualt = anagram. Want more?
3D: Wax you put on your shoes; without is a deletion indicator.
5A: Yes, it is Ms. Adams (not so sweet on this occasion)
14A: Rear (of a boat), inadequate = minus one letter.
20A: The answer is the genre of show of which Underbelly is an example.
Ok nice, clearly need to brush up on my wax knowledge… =)
Fanny Adams – haha
15A: oops – now I feel inadequte =)
You’re the boss Rupert – thanks!
doubly inadequAte* =)
As Lady Gaga and I are poles apart, I feel justified in asking, re 28A, 7D: There was a 1944 British film with a three word title, the first word a woman’s name, the middle word being ‘by’ , ending with something bright. Has DA (or Gaga) used the first and last words in reverse as the answer to this clue? Haven’t read any of the stuff above yet, want to get as far as possible without seeking hints, but pop stars????
And another: Underbelly. Have seen references to it in TV guide. Didn’t appeal. Havc to reform David’s viewing habits to conform with mine. Lost on that one.
Got most of the way very quickly today – usually still going on Sunday. But haven’t got 25D yet – a West Indies cricketer?
Thanks Joel & Rupert,
Seems I (we!) were using our feet instead of our eyes in 17D, which caused 20A to make us an offer we couldn’t understand.
Arthur, you need know nothing about Lady Gaga as DA might just have easily worked ‘a glad gay’ into the clue, if you get my drift!
25D: @Victor – yes
28D/7A: Nothing to do with Lady Gaga. The band in 10A/4D are getting on for your age, Arthur, so no excuses for not having heard of them (though you may not know this album – I didn’t).
I’m doing OK this week so it must be an easier one as others have said already. The two to go are at 16D and 24A.
18A The acronym is well known I think but I’m not sure what the ‘gives a ride to’ is all about?
15A I have the answer but ‘flag”?
For me there were a couple of good DA moments this week; 23D with its ‘saw’. Very good use of that word. Also the ‘zip’ in 5A ! He didn’t take the easier musical way out or the football organisation initials (this time).
Arthur, Rupert may well be right but the ‘folk legends’ did get together almost 44 years ago and were extremely well known for a time. I hate to admit it but I’ll be seeing just how they have fared over the years at Byron Bay this Easter!
Misread your note, Rupert, apologies! We are in agreement!
Had next to nothing in the bottom half for quite some time, but got it all out pretty quick after 17d went in . Have got most of the wordplay queries from above comments, might be a bit dim but I don’t see the taxi in 1d?
Enjoyed 10a/4d, 25d,22d,13d and 18a . Cluing of zip in 5a was a bit cheeky in a family newspaper!
Thanks for the hint Robin, that narrowed down my search for folk legends. I have the answer now (I hope) but the wordplay completely escapes me.
Unlike everyone else, I’m struggling to make a start on this one, don’t think I had enough sleep last night
My daddy was an engineer
My brother drives a hack
My sister takes in laundry
While the baby balls a jack
And it don’t look like
I’ll ever stop my wanderin’
This James Taylor song helped me, BRD.
5A I agree with you about the family newspaper as we all know it has nothing to do with Miss Adams really…
nn you can break it up as (steaming cropped Times = 1 word) (photo – smooth = 2 words) (champ in recital)! Hope that helps.
Tks Robin, much obliged, not a usage I was familiar with . Tried all sorts of things with ‘cab’ and ‘hansom’ but couldn’t get anything to work with the joint.
I think this was my fastest completion yet. I agree that it lacked the brilliance of DA’s best, but it’s good to spend Saturdays on other things as well from time to time. I don’t recall coming across 24A with that meaning, but I’m not often engaged in discussion of matters military. I presume it’s derived from the expression which is often reduced to its initials, OR.
Well, after ripping the grid to shreds with ballpoint, repented and looked again. Re 17D. This is a command I used to give to the assembled bods (about 1500 of them) before CO’s parade but I can’t understand the clue. The clue given me above, re 28A, 7D by Robin suggests I am wrong in what I have put in, related to the 1944 film starring James Mason, Stewart Granger and Phyllis Granger. ‘Glad gay’ Robin? Can’t make the connection. I still only have 11 or 12 solved (of which a couple maybe wrong) brain not helping much today.
Sorry, Arthur. Did not mean to confuse. 28A, 17D looks at first like some unheard-of jam session between Lady Gaga and the folk legends in question which lead to an obscure recording on an album. Happily it is not and, as Rupert enjoyed discovering, it can be worked out from the letters making up the 13 in the two word answer. ‘one’ = I, together with words 2 – 4 of the clue. ‘Jammed’ is the anagrind. The answer is what you experience if you stay up all night and it’s also the title of an LP by the folk legends.
Clear as mud Robin, am wondering if I have the right group? A trio who sometimes teamed up with a young member?
You have them nn!
Try ‘steaming’ = angry with the last letter missing?
‘Times’ as in 4″ x 2″?
‘photo’ as in not moving?
‘smooth’ as in with an orbital tool from Bunnings?
‘champ’ in the biblical sense (of teeth) after the weeping and wailing (homophone!)? Any good?
28A/7D: A 1982 studio album, if Wikipedia is to be believed. The third track is found on the NZ and Australian flags.
17D: @Arthur, look up and see my posts at 9:41 and 9:43 yesterday morning for hints on the wordplay.
Thanks Robin, that makes a bit more sense. Was trying to crop Times from steaming leaving “amng” which made no sense at all!
make that “ang”
I see I was totally wrong with my 28A, 7D. The ancient film to which I referred was called ‘Fanny by Gaslight’ , and I had ‘eyes right’ as the command. Robin, I’m sorry, but I haven’t a clue what it is about. So, I surrender totally on this one. Have just completely ripped it to shreds, so I won’t be tempted to waste further time on it. Try again next week.
“Fanny by Gaslight’? Things have changed, haven’t they Arthur? That certainly wouldn’t get an Oscar nomination for ‘subtlety in titling’ these days… although it might get a run on some pay TV channels?
@Arthur, you were right on 17D, and close with 28A (just a few hours off).
Thanks for confirmation on 17D Rupert. I had it but don’t get it. Presume OK refers to the second word, but no idea on the rest of the wordplay.
Am getting very close to doing an Arthur and ripping this one up. Have about half a dozen answers so far after working on it (on and off and between frequent interruptions from family members) for about 3 hours. The fact that most of you think it was easier than last week’s is only adding to my frustration. Would never have got 28A 7d without above hints.
Will ponder the underbelly one now, but, like Arthur, it isn’t something I’d watched.
17D: OK is letters 2-4 of the first word. Doctor is letters 1-3 of the second word. Remaining letters are “the”, messed.
thanks Rupert
I’m with nn on the frustration of everybody saying how easy this one is! I’ve just come back to it after a visit from grandchildren – I was really struggling, but they seem to have stirred up the little grey cells a bit, so I’m now there or thereabouts. Would never have got the parsing of some of these without comments on here – still can’t fathom the ‘madcap bout’ bit in 12a
I’m struggling with madcap bout too Mary. Best I’ve got so far is a word for mad without the first letter (i.e. cap it, although decap might be more to the point). Am reading bout as (a)bout, a containment indicator.
Shouldn’t 5A be fling zip into a Xmas tree? The first “a” is redundant. I thought most Christmas trees here were pine anyway (at least in Victoria)
Is 13d missing a containment indicator?. def is a bit off too, they are “rules” and can forbid as well as allow.
Did like 23d
For Mary and nn. There is a strong connection between the compiler and the answer to 12A. Think American law enforcement, and A stands for … It is two words, with a letter off each, joined to make the answer. That was one of only a dozen clues I solved.
thanks Arthur, have the answer, just pondering some of the wordplay. Got the Enron bit, my take on the rest is above
I think I’ve just got 12A ‘madcap bout’ looking at it. Is it madcap = BATTY with B out = ATTY?
18A wordplay anyone? How does ‘gives a ride’ fit the answer?
Also The ‘flag’ in TITLE? 15A
@nn – yes, I thought the same for 12, but if ’bout’ is the containment indicator, then surely the ‘in’ is unnecessary? Likewise, I agree there seems to be one ‘a’ too many in 5. (Don’t be silly, there isn’t an ‘a’ in ‘five’!)
I took ‘prolong’ as the containment indicator in 13- ie stretch from the inside.
Robin – it’s an aussie expression for carrying an extra person on your bike.
With 15A, I think the first three words are just the def. giving two examples when one might have been enough.
and yes, that’s the way I saw 12A.
@robin, 18a – I think it’s ‘gives a ride to’ as in ‘makes easy for’, as one of the meanings of the answer can be a soft shot in tennis – but if it’s one of Federer’s drop-shots then all bets are off!
I assumed 15a was just a triple definition, with the ‘flag’ being the weakest.
While we’re nit-picking, did anybody else hesitate over the second letter of the first word of 26a? If ‘let go’ is in the present tense, as it should be to match ‘solve’, then surely the clue is transitive and the answer is sort of intransitive, if you see what I mean.
I took ‘let go’ to be be past tense.
Robin I think you are right about 12A and Mary too with in being the containment indicator.
Not thrilled with prolonged as a containment indicator in 13d though. I read letters 1,2,3,4 and 9 as “prolonged visit”, apart from the fact that prolonged doesn’t imply contained IMO.
15A Flag is what you win in AFL, most other sports have a cup or a shield etc.
18a is slang we used as kids meaning to give someone else a ride on your bike, usually sitting in front of you on the crossbar while you peddled. If no crossbar, then sat on the handlebars or maybe behind you on the luggage rack. Probably illegal these days (might have been then too!)
@GB – so if let go is past and solve is present, did you put got or get in the answer?
Thanks Mary and nn for the two aussie expressions. I do not think I have ever heard the bicycle one but I had sort of half twigged the flag but don’t watch AFL so it didn’t come to me. Another one is ‘pennant’ in some sports?
All in all it is a DA I got very close to finishing unassisted so there is hope yet! It has also another thought provoker, whether it be about 1944 movies or the lyrics of songs we grew up with. I still live with the words of the folk legends in mind today when they sing “a father’s hell will slowly go by…” !
Sorry Mary, I see what you mean now. It has to be present tense, so I should have GET.
Should he have used something like ‘to be let gone’ (which wouldn’t scan very nicely).
I should have paid more attention at school.
Addicted? I patiently restuck the torn puzzle, and after a while, things started to flow. It eventually occurred to me that the musical trio/foursome were deeply involved. I had heard of them, vaguely, don’t think I ever heard any of their music. Now only four to go, I think. 11 & 20A, 9 & 13D.
Delete 13D from above list, good clue for a simpleton such as I. Is 9D a dance? My word finer wouldn’t give me one to fit the letters I have. I have a possible (?) for 11A, synonym twerp, but can’t see any connection with clue except dope and ‘can rebound’. But the smack heroin bit??? If I could get first word of 20A, I think I’d soon finish.
Arthur 9D is a dance, probably from your era or thereabouts.
I think you are on the right track for 11A. Read the first syllable backwards to get the can, second syllable is with with the H deleted (smack = delete??) the Heroin (H)
20A Underbelly supposedly chronicles actual crimes as opposed to fictional.
Thanks, nn, I did sort out the whole clue there straight after my last post. As to the dance, I did take some lessons ca 1949, I think. Pride of Erin, Modern waltz, Barn dance, Tangoette, (?), can’t rember any more. Long time ago. I have letters 2, 4, & 6, but no idea at this time. Anyway, its time for supper and bed. Alarm goes off at 0530.
Arthur – sounds like you had the dancing bug, but went to the wrong lessons.
I think this clue might bug Arthur for quite some time, enough to give him the jitters.
not sure why you’d want to get up at 0530 Arthur, but wake me up before you go go and I’ll give you another hint.
nn, our 0530 start has been a practice for several years. I have a pill to take 30 mins before breakfast, which is at 0600, Mrs C likewise. We have a daily Bible reading (from a booklet called Our Daily Bread) and prayer time before breakfast each day. The newspaper gets here before breakfast, she starts on the Quick crossword while I read the Letters page over breakfast.
The good news is, I just finished DA, finally realising what the missing word was in 20A, which in turn gave me the beer-pitcher dance of 9D. So, free to watch the cricket this arvo. Cheers all!
glad you got the dance Arthur I was running out of ideas for hints!
I found it very interesting that some people have suggested DA’s “zip” in 5a may be inappropriate for a “family newspaper” (a what?! are there non-family newspapers?). But, dear DA Trippers, the Fanny Adams version of the phrase precedes the other by miles. Fanny Adams was an 8-year-old who was brutally butchered in Hampshire, UK, in 1867. A popular song was written about her called Sweet Fanny Adams. A couple of years after the high-profile case, the Royal Navy switched from salt beef to dodgy tinned meat and began referring to it as Sweet Fanny Adams, after the song and because they joked that Fanny’s butched remains must surely be what they were eating. Sweet Fanny Adams soon became naval slang describing anything that was worthless or of poor quality. It was shortened to Sweet FA, which then evolved into the profane version popular today.
25D wrapped up this week’s crossword for me, and I shook my fist and cursed DA’s name when the eureka moment hit. Caribbean whirlwind indeed.
Posted all this over the weekend using my phone, but it never appeared, so I had another go with the computer at work. Hope this works…
I must say I was very surprised at how many people aren’t down with dinking, or double dinking even! That word has been Aussie slang amongst kids for decades, at least since the 1940s when my mum was a kid and still used today.
That’s a great story, KM. I never knew the history of Sweet Fanny Adams.
I have been in Australia for 30 years now but was nowhere near being a child when I got here. I have had three kids who all had bikes but I have never heard of dinking!
You’re right KM – the proper expression was double dinking when I was at school!
For me, it was either a Double, or a Dink. Interchangeable but not together.
Re 15a, I reckon you all got the wrong tram on this. Flag is a term for paving stones or tiles, cup relates to the normal breakfast refreshment therefore ti (t)le makes sense
Thanks, Barry. I was hoping 15A wasn’t as lame as it looked. Unfortunately, I don’t see a container indicator.
[For those who’ve thrown the paper away already] 15. Flag or cup name (5)
While “Flag” = TILE is a good one, and “cup” = T is fine, I don’t see how “or” indicates that one is inside the other. If you could explain “or” = T that would be better, as “cup” is a common container indicator.
Nup. barry dalton is trying too hard. No way is it ti(t)le.
It’s a double definition.
“Flag or cup” is a sufficiently interesting combo to make it DA-worthy
Name is the other side.
And the surface seems ok to me.
15A double def or triple def?.My first assumption was the same as Mary, i.e. triple def.
Flag,cup and name are all titles. Did the clue need or as the second letter?
For it to be a double def then cup name must = title.