DA Confusion for 9/10th of December, 2011

Speak of your confusion; have your confusion defused.


97 thoughts on “DA Confusion for 9/10th of December, 2011

  1. Some of the sparkle back and a few chuckles. Still 4 to go in the SW. Not having 15D doesn’t help, or 27A. Have letters 3 and 5. Twelve? Beer? Be-er?
    Had to google 6D after getting 23D.
    10A’s a hoot. Liked 16A, 13D, and a few more probably once I’ve figured out all the wordplay.

  2. Yep, all done now before the garbo truck arrives.
    I think 1A and 27A are the only Ozisms this week.

  3. 15D was a new one on me. My dictionary has it hyphenated. Best just to get it from the wordplay and cross letters. State abbreviations are the normal ones this time, not the coastguard ones.

    27A is an Ozism for a serving size. The wordplay is a deletion from twelve o’clock.

    13A messed up my grid because there’s an English cold-blooded type that fits all the cross letters (except 19A). I hadn’t heard of this one.

    I hadn’t heard of the gentleman in 1A. I was expecting the google results to need to be filtered!

    I liked 24A and 15D. I disliked 15A (unless someone convinces me that the wordplay isn’t as lazy as it seems).

    On to my wordplay confusion:

    23D: Where is the last letter clued?
    17A? No idea how this works.
    4D: How does “of serve” work?

  4. 23D I initially thought the measure was the en, em, type but then thought it might be a 4 letter word used in statistics, with a letter deleted. But it would need to be a central letter so don’t think that’s right either.
    17A, all I’ve got so far is the first letter, and the reversal of ‘row’ as the container, and possibly ‘says you’?
    4D: of serve un (changed)

  5. Is ‘S’ the sound of a leak, like air coming out of a tyre?
    I don’t get 25D’s wordplay.

  6. 25D: The ‘stripped’ kingdom is a kingdom in a comic strip, noted for its wizard.

    4D: Thanks. I was looking at unchanged => last four letters of 1D

    23D: I don’t see how a gutless measure (whatever it is) gets you three letters.

    17A: Detective = D. Leak indicator = SSS. You reported = U. Row = TIER. Put them together as indicated.

  7. Yes, I liked 15D too. Had googled the 3 states but was confused by a wrong stab at 15A, which I agree is a bit off.

  8. Ah, thanks for 25D, I was wondering if there was more to the mini theme.

  9. How does ‘suppressing’ work in 7D? I can’t get a hidden out of that.

  10. I found this pretty easy to get into today. I have a half-dozen to go in SW corner.

    7D: I take “suppress” as hiding. Libertarian but ok.
    25D: Thank you Rupert. I never would have got it. I was thinking G&S…
    23D: I am with you re 23D. Easy guess but wordplay has me beat.

  11. Suppressed information is hidden, and a suppressed revolution could be said to have been contained.

  12. 22D: I had always assumed this derived from the habits of actors (troupers) rather than soldiers, but apparently I was wrong.

  13. Was only about 3/4 through before I looked here, now got all but 20A – it looks like it should be simple enough but I’m not catching on. Any non-spoiler hints?

    BTW, I’m also unconvinced about the clueing for 25D (tried a lot of ways to make sense of it but none seem to work).

  14. Got an early start today courtesy of Milton’s pilgrims’ cafe. All but 10A done, which no-one else is struggling with! Have 2nd word, and letters 1 and 3… unless it’s a homophone for a funeral item. Had to look up spelling for 2D, even with the clue.
    From my POV, quite humourous overall, and not too esoteric.
    7D had a different usage not so many years ago.
    20A – ‘handy’ is too cryptically the key word. The rest is 2 words, without us. Hope this isn’t a spoiler. I’m new to the spoil-free-zone.

  15. 23D – maybe the measure is ‘gutless’. Either in 4 letters (sounds like nasty), or in 5 letters as a sub atomic particle.
    One wouldn’t hyphenate 15D 2,000 years ago.
    I think the old saying for 22D would have ended with trooper.
    17A is a less-common usage for tails to fit Rupert’s break-down above.

  16. 10A favourable viewers is the key word. you might ‘get these’ after a long night at the ‘local’

  17. Still pondering 23D. tonyM I thought of mean , but think gut would need to indicate deletion of a central letter/s. And don’t really think that meson (was that it?) is a good synonym for measure.
    Another guess is gut less measure eg abdomen without the abdo, but can’t make out measure from abdo.
    Another is gut a word for less, eg minus? > m + en(measure). But don’t think gut can indicate to delete the rest of the word, only the middle. ]
    Can anyone help .. going fishing in the morning for 3 whole days .. no computers, yeay!

  18. Just checking in – I have not read any comments yet but will have to soon! I’m going to crack I’m sure.

    Having my best day for DA unassisted (for me that means without D A Trippers or answers from the paper!) and I only have two to go, 7D and 10A. I’m just hoping that everyone isn’t saying that it’s the easiest one for three years or similar!

    Rain at Bellerive Oval has helped I guess. NZ probably wish it would rain until Wednesday?

    I’ll be back with a few wordplay queries as usual, for example 17A. What the …?

    27A was a great moment when I got it. I’d been through 16 or 17 5-letter beers by then. Not literally.

  19. Jeez spent 2 hours wasted because I couldn’t spell 2D. Grr. Dont get 20A although think I am right.

    Good one guys.

  20. RobT, tonyM has given 20A. man + delete us from average/common.
    Robin, me too about 27A.

  21. I didn’t quite make it a clear round but fell at the last couple of fences. Will hang up the 17A again, the Pool Room will have to wait.

    For me it was very enjoyable and it’s good to see a few here think so too. Some great lightbulb moments with 27A, 1A, 15D, 14D and 24A to name a few.

    I had the wrong answer for 5D which I had as NEAR. This stuffed up all attempts at getting 10A of course. Out of interest, when resorting to a word finder using the supposed cross letters for the second word of 10A (A – G – – – S) one of the possibilities was ‘ALGORES’.

    Furthermore, there in the correct answer, is GORE in the letters! However the man has nil to do with DA this week.

    Didn’t see the hidden in 7D which was disappointing as I thought I’d gotten better at spotting those. Btw 19A was a good one.

    Thanks for 17A Rupert, very good. I’d thought of the SSS but dismissed it somehow.

  22. stumped on word plays for 10A, 3D (the outer letters), 6D, 23D (gutless measure).

  23. john, I was about to ask the same for 3D. I’ve got the ‘branch leader’ and the ‘time’ but how do we get letters 1,2 and 7 from ‘actual’?

    6D is letters 1-3 clued by ‘issue’. DA has used it before – it’s a word used for a publication. ‘OX up’ gives you letters 4-7, ‘up’ meaning ‘reversed’ as usual. ‘X’ is spelt out this time.

    23D has been thrashed out above. I don’t think the last letter is clued! ‘Gutless measure’ is typically ME surely?

    The thesaurus gives a word for measure being ‘mensuration’ but I’m not thinking that helps us!

  24. The penny finally dropped for 5D with its transformation of poles. It looks like 15A uses a similar ruse if I’m understanding it correctly. I agree with the comments above that the cluing is a bit weak, unless there’s more to it?

  25. 3D: The branch leader *replaces* time in actual. Letters 4-6 look like they’re clued by time but they’re not.

    10A: Ecologist = a colour (and a party), shortened and reversed inside a word for amazes.

    23D: Glad to see it’s not just me. This is two weeks in a row we’ve had an unclued letter, unless one of the Melbournites can explain it.

  26. 15A: I like the transformation of poles idea, also the related tricks of “changing hands” to replace R with L and vice versa, or “heating” or “cooling” to switch H and C. But the totally unrestrained “replace the first letter with any other letter” or the slightly less restrained “note” or “grade” seem lazy and unfair to me.

  27. 23D I did wonder, Rupert, if DA was going to leave one letter a week unclued and spell something out. If so we now have S N – – – – – !

  28. 15A If it was a down clue you could say that a ‘veneer’ sits on top of something but I agree with you anyway.

  29. Well done also, Rupert, on finding the kingdom in 25D. I had ABU stripped of DHABI for a period yesterday.

    I’m still looking at 3D. I still don’t yet see what you mean.

  30. 3D: Actual = without metaphor or allegory (7), there is a T (time) in that word which, when replaced by branch leader gives the answer.

  31. 3D very good! Got it now. I think the 3 letter word for time at 4-6 put me right off track.

    I like your anagram. We’re not that bad, are we?!

  32. got 10A on a second look, straight forward really, thanks for 6D Robin, thanks for 3D Rupert, not convinced about any of the proposals for 23D.

  33. Much easier than last week. Got SE corner, then NE corner, then NW corner and finished with 15D and 15D in SW corner. Didn’t resort to any online resources, or any other resources for that matter, so some of my guesses might be incorrect. Will find out soon. Liked the mix of clues and the mix of answers.

  34. 23D: @john, I thought about gutless = M, but I can’t see that, either.

    Maybe “cross over gutless” = XM, somehow?

  35. As I watch Ponting batting in Hobart I wonder if it’s like this:

    ‘cross’ = X, ‘over gutless’ = maiden = M, ‘measure’ = EN?

  36. 23dn: I think this is a mistake, and the N is unclued. Maybe it got left out in the redrafting process.

  37. Rupert, thanks for the 3d explanation, I was mystified as to where 1,2 and 7 came from beforehand.
    Fwiw I took gutless measure to be mean less ‘a’.

  38. 23D: Not buying it. If measure = mean then gutless measure = MN, not MEN.

    I would rather think that DA is giving us a multi-week puzzle. Unfortunately we already know that it’s not DATRIPPERS.

  39. To oil the waters, XMEN is not a typo, or bloop – but an ultra-sneaky bit of business:

    Freaks [def] cross [MIX] over [reversed] gutless [XM] measure [EN]

    Ouch, right? But that’s a whole lot better than my bona fide bloop a few weeks back, overlooking the second S of an S-heavy BORIS SPASSKY. In a word – loppy. (And I’m orry for the lip.)

    NB, for those who don’t like intense themers, then please avoid the next two crosswords on the sushi train. Otherwise, revel.

  40. have about half of it now, but none of the NW corner
    Have been pondering all the clues about 3d but am none the wiser.
    I have 1 cross letter from 10A and am presuming that this is the branch leader replacing time in actual. Assume the def is a politician? Can’t come up with any synonyms of actual that fit anything resembling a politician. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick with all these hints?
    Assuming I’ve read it correctly the clue seems a bit clumsy, “Branch leader occupies time in actual politician” would surely be neater.

  41. @DA looking forward to a couple of themes, just hope they are ones I know something about!

  42. got 3d now after putting in a guess for 11A, which, if correct, leaves me puzzled by the wordplay

  43. SE corner to go. Lots of wordplays in NW that I don’t get.
    Is it just me or are DA’s indicators for anagrams, containers, deletions etc getting weirder each week?

  44. Thanks, DA, for settling that one.

    I actually thought earlier today that it would be really good to have a word from you directly from time to time on these hot topics – great that you thought the same!

    Rupert was very close with his .

    I think we would have got there in the end, bandwidth permitting.

  45. nn, I’m not sure if you mean you’re puzzled by the wordplay for 3D or 11A.

    11A is a holy city having word 1 cluing letter 1, word 2 cluing letters 2-3. The rest is a 5 letter anagram.

    Rupert assisted earlier with 3D. The answer is a word with a B in it. Swap the B for a T and you get a word meaning ‘actual’.

  46. Rupert I think I have the same 13D as you first did which may explain why I can’t get 19A (my last one, or at least I thought it was my last one, but I guess I need to find another 13D!

  47. @Robin it was 11A I didn’t understand. Thanks for your explanation. Was messing around with two Ns from Northern extremists and got completely lost after that.

  48. Apologies, I see my comment before last didn’t copy/paste properly. Please read:

    Rupert was very close with his ‘Maybe “cross over gutless” = XM, somehow?’ , which DA confirms is correct but we didn’t know why.

  49. nn, for 11A I had an ‘endless Nazi’ for a little while until I remembered the other use of ‘extremist’.

    13D has a 7 letter anagram followed by what I think you have already.

  50. finished now. Have the terrestrial one for 13d instead of my earlier mess involving the English aquatic one. I think I get most of the wordplays.
    8D I’m assuming “a cart” clues letters 3-6, but seems a bit of a stretch
    Agree with others about15A
    28A Yen = letter 4 what tells us that we only want one letter of Yen? Or is it another common abbreviation that I’ve never heard of?
    1A 2330 is a bit too obscure for my liking!
    On the plus side did like 2d, 16A, 21A, 22D

  51. @nn re 28A In the clue the word ‘yen’ stands alone and doesn’t relate to ‘magazine’. As for any currency this can clue a single letter I believe. I recently saw ‘coppers’ meaning P for example. ‘Bucks’ or ‘dollars’ might = S etc. There is a ‘Yen Magazine’ but this is just a deception here I reckon.

    In 8D ‘a cart’ clues letters 2-6. The ‘a’ = letter 2. ‘Cart’ is a verb and = letters 3-6 meaning to move cargo.

    DA did an Omega Crossword in the SMH a few months ago for the benefit of NSW residents who had fun translating numerous codes like the one in 1A. It would have been too easy a theme for a cryptic I’m thinking.

  52. thanks Robin, was thinking of cart as a noun, missed letter 2 in my reading of the answer too.
    Had yen as standing alone, hadn’t worked out how it was equated with its abbreviation (was thinking of a different definition not currency), all clear now.

    Agree a theme on such codes would be a giveaway. For us southerners who’d never heard of the place, associating it with a code was getting a bit hard especially as this was the def, although the rest of the clue is good and I was able to work out the answer from the wordplay.

  53. Only spent ten minutes this morning. Cricket started early. But wrote in 1A with assurance, though baffled by the 2330? Spelling of 2D took a while to sort out, never seen the adjectival form before. 4D looks like a tennis score after two winning points, but where does it go from there, in 1D? Probably not going to get much more today, NZ second innings just starting. Look again this evening, perhaps.

  54. 4D/1D: The answer means in continuous operation. Nothing to do with tennis. Score as in three score and ten. See Gayle’s answer to me way back at the beginning of this thread for the rest of the explanation.

  55. Best ever start for me today with only left to get – without any help from the Trippers or google. Will continue pondering 10A and check back later for hopefully further clues. Have a good weekend.

  56. 10A: There’s an ad running on the bus shelter across the road, I think for bottled water, that reads: 3am means your standards go down but your chances go up.

    Just something for you to contemplate ;)

  57. 23D: Thanks, DA, though I’m sort of disappointed that there isn’t some secret code in the wordplay errors from week to week. You may want to think about that for next year ;)

  58. First run through netted only 7D, ROFL. Then 19D for a while and it started to come together. Didn’t see the anagrind in 16A until well after finishing; now my favourite of the day because of very clever surface.

  59. Thanks Rupert. Learnt something new today. I had never heard of 10A – a long time since I was out at 3am in the morning and even longer since I spent the night at the pub. Is the answer an Ozism? Favorites this week were 16 and 27A.

  60. 10A: I don’t think it’s an Ozism. It was a common term when I was a lad in England in the last millenium.

  61. I’ve almost finished, but stumped on 12A. Thought I had it until I decided on 8D, which showed me I had the wrong final letter. Also having problems with 22D, and don’t get the wordplay in 9A. Enjoyed 16A, 27A and 28A, among others.

  62. Dave R – 12A Do you remember the old guy in teenage mutant ninja turtles? 22D Troopers proverbially do this. 9A Churchill’s sign for winning.

  63. John, I understand the ‘winning’ bit, but it was the last part of the clue that I couldn’t get. I had 23D correct without fully understanding the wordplay. Then read DA’s comment. I vaguely remember that the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were named after Renaissance painters. I still need to think hard about 22D.

  64. @Dave R The wordplay for 9A fooled me until I realised the ‘that’s’ which would have been easier to spot if it was ‘that is’. That’ll give you the cluing for letters 2-3.

    I think I had the same Japanese role for 12A as you by the sound of it. Female? I’d not heard of john’s chap from the Ninja Turtles but 12A is a Japanese elder or mentor apparently. It sounds like “sense I”.

  65. 22D, if you haven’t got it yet, is a word for promise. Think about being in court and promising to tell the truth. Some would do it on a bible!

  66. Thanks, Robin. My 9A was wrong. I hadn’t picked up ‘struggle’ as the def. I once taught Japanese, so I’m ashamed of not getting 12A, having actually been addressed that way many times. And ‘like a trooper’ is a simile I should have remembered. The pre-Christmas season is addling my brain.

  67. Now almost finished (3 left). Had never seen 23D series, but Googled list of characters. Is 6D a fitting to an old car? If so, I need only 5& 7D, plus 10A. Is this a well-known ecologist person? Anyway, the puzzle turned out to be surprisingly easy, even if I don’t finish it.

  68. Arthur C – The clue in 10A is favourable viewers, correct on 6D – I got stuck on the wordplay, if you get 10A you should get 5D and 7D.

  69. 5D: A word for murmur, with S replaced by N, gives a word for approaching.

    7D: Email speak for “that was funny”, but not as funny as ROFL. “suppressing” is an indication that the answer is hidden in the text of the clue.

  70. Finished! I have no recollection of ever seeing or hearing the ‘alcohol glasses’ thing, I just took a punt, looked in Google, and there it was. So, back to the cricket, with Oz having made a good start toward 241.

  71. Loved the specs in 10A. And maybe there is a missed opportunity for a great clue for 17A involving Dr Seuss, it seems…….

  72. There are three more Fridays before the year is out so I will keep trying for a clear round! Nearly made it last week.
    I have two queries in the meantime if anyone can help… last Saturday’s DS had this one.
    11A Strikes one to spot handwritten edition (5) I’m pretty sure it’s S – E – S but I just don’t get it.

    Also RM had me baffled on Monday with this.
    7D Nothing less piggy or glamorous? (5) = SWISH but why? Answers, please, on a postcard …

  73. Hi Robin, it was too rainy to go fishing so did DS myself. Think it might be:
    def= strikes one; to spot = SEE handwritten edition=manuscript=MS
    When you win the dictionary you can send me that page : )
    My guess for the RM clue is SOWISH, delete the O (nothing) = SWISH (def)

  74. Good to hear from DA about XMEN and BORIS SPASSKY. And looking forward to XMAS edition, I think.

  75. XMAS: Cross over gutless host of Trippers.
    Sorry AS, not suggesting you’re gutless. Totally DA’s wordplay : )

  76. Thanks, Gayle. I’ll buy the first one. I had SEEMS and the support for SEE but I’d missed the manuscript which has got to be right.

    Sowish? A good guess possibly; I’d got as far as ‘swinish’ but ‘sowish’ isn’t in my usual dictionaries. I can do no better though so it’ll have to stay at that. Thanks for your help.

    (Btw, win what dictionary?)

  77. Robin, if you read the fine print on Saturday, and you get it out and send it in you could win a dictionary. With DA we have a finer incentive: pure joy .. or pain, whatever turns you on.

  78. RM really should change his moniker. I get confused seeing my initials on clues I haven’t written yet.
    I liked Gayle’s XMAS clue.

  79. Admire your work Gayle, v well done with the DS clues & with the season – speaking of which, season’s greetings to all Datrippers.

  80. Very good, Rupert! Actually I do read the small print of course but the little box on Saturdays is so familiar you don’t see it any more.

    I can usually get all of the DS crossword out and find it a lot of fun, but last week’s cost me more grief getting started than last Friday’s DA. I find there’s an element of belief involved in these crosswords. With any setter if you know you can usually do it you probably will. I can have the reverse with DA sometimes thinking it will be too cryptic. I can feel I’m making progress though.

  81. Hello,
    Can someone help me please with 1A. (Chesty Bond) and 5D (murmur).
    Thanks a lot.

  82. Hi Grant. 1A is SINGLETON (Chesty Bond is alwways depicted with a singlet on). And Singleton is a town in NSW with postcode 2330. (A new one on me too).
    5D is NIGH (approaching). Murmur is SIGH, and if you change S->N you get NIGH.

    TIP: If you post a comment on a previous week’s puzzle on Friday or Saturday, it could easily be overlooked, so it might be best to wait until after the weekend’s fluury of activity has died down.

  83. Brilliant. Thanks RB. I never would have thought of the postcode.

  84. @grant, I’m not sure anyone thought of the postcode, or if they did, they thought it was so obvious they didn’t bother explaining it to the rest of us. I thought it was some weird Australian bridge notation indicating only one of a suit until I googled it.

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