DA Confusion for the 30th of October, 2020

Have your confusions sorted out for this week’s super-dooper DA extravaganza.

71 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 30th of October, 2020

  1. Where is everybody?

    Not very enjoyable. 13A, 22A and 23A are not in my vocabulary. Surely DA should stick to real words and avoid slang and Yiddish.

    Did anyone manage to determine the definition of 4D without recourse to an encyclopedia?

  2. Halfway through and well and truly stuck. Judging by Peter’s comment, might be time to give up. Perhaps that’s why no-one’s around?

  3. About average time for me; yet again was stuck after the first 2 or 3 answers and had to resort to starting from the SE and moving upwards. FOI 22A, 20D. LOI 18A, 4D.

    Good starters might include 3D, 7D, 16A, 17D, 12A.

  4. Peter – tend to agree = not overly enjoyable. I don’t like having to back derive wordplay as I have to do for DA.

    Do have all out and understood.

    And I do admit I did actually know 4D (in fact my pick for one of the best) – to do with a sport I follow.

  5. Hard one for me. First ones 22a,3d,17d,19a,6d. LOI 18a. Didn’t know the definition in 4d, and didn’t know 7d. A couple of clues to quibble about as well.
    Favourites were 19a (for “dismissed”) and 14a (for “unlocked”).

  6. Well, I’m glad the more expert solvers found it hard. I solved about half, but cheated to get the other half. certainly, things there I had never heard of. The query on 4D, (Peter, 0809) the Arab nation is OK, the whole definition I don’t understand.

  7. If you google the first word of the 4D clue together with the answer, all will be made clear!

  8. Arthur, re 4D – Fine gives 1,2; note (as in do-re-mi) gives 3,4, I don’t know where letter 5 comes from unless DA thinks that the note has three letters. The Arab nation gives the last four.

    The definition refers to a nickname for the answer that dates back to the sale of land there. Also as DAJunkie says, it’s also the nickname for a sporting team.

  9. Like Arthur, I gave up and looked at the solutions. I suspect that if I’d tried to persevere, it would have ended in tears.

    Clearly I need to go to the US more — I’d never heard of 3d nor 23a nor the definition of 4d. No idea how 18a works, nor 12a.

    Like Tim, I managed a wee smile at “dismissed” and “unlocked”.

  10. 4D impenetrable. I got the answer because it was the only word that fitted (and then I checked Google as Peter suggested). There is cryptic and then there is fair. Disappointed DA: but still love your work.

  11. Graham M : Fair enough although 3D is not a US term AFAIK.

    I’m stuck on the parsing of 18A myself, but for 12a you need to use the clue word “progressively” in a mechanical way on the following clue words.

  12. Unlike some, I found it quite enjoyable today… the long multi-word down clues helped unlock a lot of the others for me. I only managed to get 4D with the help of the DA Trippers posts, thanks for the help. I wouldn’t have got it without help, as I’d certainly never heard of that usage, but one of the great things about DA is that you almost always learn something new, right?

  13. We both (separately) got it out in a bit under 2 hours. Quite slow for an hour. I always love the challenge and learn something. And DA’s Quicks are great too.

  14. Yes, DAJunkie, that was my take for 18a as well, but I think the definition is poor for the (1,3).

  15. I thought 18A was fair enough, Used to be called the front stalls when I was going to the flicks back in the forties. If the seats are identified alphabetically, starting at the front, which they used to be, the second one equates with the ‘mosh pit’ a much more modern, rock-concert type thing.

  16. Just finished here. A little too much obscurity for me too, plus I had some clue quibbles. Not happy with the “showing some regression” function in 3D, unless I’m missing something.

  17. Thanks for help, people. 12a & 18a now understood.

    (As I intimated, I’d never heard of 3d, but the two dictionaries I consulted say “informal, N American”. For the record, I have nothing against Americans — indeed most of those I’ve met are delightful — but a pet hate of mine is the way we in Australia are becoming more Americanized — with a zee.)

  18. Wow, I love how 13A in the Quick assists with understanding 13A in the Cryptic.

    I’ve seen beauty and consideration in DA’s Quicks before as standalones, but haven’t thought to look for making this kind of connection yet.

    I wonder if 3D in the Quick helps with 18A in the Cryptic—haven’t solved that one yet.

  19. AG: ‘showing’ tells you that the answer is in the clue, once you use ‘regression’ as a reversal indicator.

  20. LJ from 24th Oct, the local library set me straight about accessing the DA etc on line, and I used the service today. I wanted to thank you again for your help

  21. Among the obscurities and mysteries remaining for me, I would point out that, if I have the answer right, the last two letters of 23A would be illegal under NSW plumbing legislation. Gotta be t’other way around.

  22. Unable to parse the following:
    12A, 14A,18A, 19a,24A,
    6D,
    and in a way, 2D,5D, not fully either

  23. I get ‘dismissed’ but not ‘unlocked’, nor how the second word of 5D fits – help appreciated.
    Re the 4D definition, Wikipedia lists plenty of other corresponding terms (eg. quite a few animal names) which would make good but for us challenging cryptic fodder.

  24. SlowA, for 14a “pick-up” is a homophone indicator. A homophone of the second syllable (letters 5-10) in a delightfully twisted way means “unlocked”.

    Cokes, that’s a long list. I’ll help with 6d and leave others to chime in. Letters 1, 2, 5 are a trigonometric function you’ll recall from your high school days. The whole thing means the last section of many songs.

  25. SlowA, think of locks in terms of tresses. For 5d, I was thrown or tricked by that clue for a while.

  26. Cokes, break down the word dismissed a bit in 19a. The Passover meal is a 5 letter word. For 2d, 1-5 is a reindeer and 8-11 is ‘present’.

  27. Oh, all right, Cokes, here’s help with 2d …

    First word of clue is definition.
    The reindeer is 1-5.
    “So cute” mixed (“gambolling”) is 6, 7, 12-15.
    “Present” gives 8-11.

  28. Thanks should have figured out the others, perhaps working to hard…but Erik and the Passover meal definitely required googling, and you know my thoughts on specific niche knowledge/googling and cryptics :-(

  29. Thanks Graham M and Tim C re 14A – I had decided that ‘saw’ was 5-10 (a real stretch, in hindsight) and couldn’t work out how ‘unlocked’ related to 1-3. And Tim C, thanks for the help with 2nd word of 5D – the connection between it and ‘thrown’ was one I never would have made!

  30. Tim C,
    I agree the spelling should be Erik.
    There is niche and then there is really niche. I had heard of 23a but 4d and the Passover meal in 19a is very niche. I didn’t feel guilty about googling to confirm the wordplay.

  31. Just looked at the solution. Despite the discussion above I am still baffled by 4D. Don’t even know what the definition is. An explanation would be much appreciated.

  32. Google “Sooner”
    “Sooners is the name given to settlers who entered the Unassigned Lands in what is now the state of Oklahoma before the official start of the Land Rush of 1889”.

    3-5 – “ Note”
    6-9 – “Arab nation”
    Supporting
    1-2 – “fine”

  33. GeoffD, see AndrewT’s comment at 10:42 am yesterday.

    4d was obscure for me Margaret, but well known to DAJunkie. I’d heard of Erik (probably via Monty Python’s Erik The Viking) and I’d heard of the meal (my 4th one in but Old Testament Jewish practices so yes probably obscure for many). I quite like the odd less common word to increase the vocabulary. It helps when I get round to the Spectator crossword each week. I’ve also noticed a few uncommon words appearing from the other compilers in the SMH recently.

  34. I agree Tim C
    I love the Yiddish and non ozzie references…good for our brains . We can be very parochial here in Tassie.
    I too do the Spectator x word which can use some fiendishly obscure words
    Well done DA, you make my week

  35. Yes, Tim, expanding one’s lexicon is one of many good reasons to indulge in the odd cryptic. (Even a not-so-odd cryptic!) I was introduced to “petrichor” a few years ago, and every year about this time when the first storms arrive I take pleasure in inserting it into casual conversation, unperturbed by the quizzical look from my interlocutor.

  36. Can anyone please help with the wordplay for 10A and 11A? I had the answers pretty easily, but still don’t fully get the word play.

  37. Kay K,
    10a
    “Cleaning”
    2 – “Article”
    1, 3-10 – “sacking” lost cap.

    11
    posts
    8 – “duck”
    5-7, 9-10 – “features”
    1-4 “viewing platform”. – think streaming service

  38. I found this very tough, but struggled through and got it done. Took about 10 sessions chipping away a bit at a time. Googled several to confirm and explain them.
    I think they’re all fair enough if you accept you can’t know every word DA will come up with! Thanks for parsing 14a which I like now. Can’t get 19a parsed still but have the word; any help welcome.

  39. Thanks Margaret and TimC, however I still think it’s a poor clue. It would never have occurred to me to Google ‘Sooner’ as I had no idea that was the definition.
    That said I must admit that in 11A I couldn’t get past ‘lookout’ for viewing platform. Streaming services never occurred to me!!

  40. Thankyou Margaret. Like GeoffD I had that word for 1-4 in 11A, but didn’t expand my thinking enough for that usage! Same for 10A – limited thinking about what ‘sacking’ can mean!

  41. The Sooners were men who literally jumped the gun to rush into the “unassigned lands” to claim their patch. Just as in Australia native lands could be “re-assigned” to settlers.

  42. Still stumped for 22a (even with cross-letters!) All done otherwise with help from Trippers and parsing many only after definition found with cross-letters… Find that not enjoyable & not the way DA used to be (or is all the time thank goodness ;’)

  43. GeoffD,
    I got stuck on the viewing platform being Stand so I couldn’t get the rest of the clue to go anywhere. When I finally got the word I was trying to work out how to shorten “stand”.

  44. Interesting discussion – we all have our specialised areas of knowledge. I did know 22A as used in online discussion groups; I assume it is shortened from “newbie”. I wonder if it has ever appeared in print? The two I definitively did not know were 13A and 4D (never heard of either usage), but I don’t object to a bit of hunting on the Internet, and I eventually worked them out. I was still stuck on some of the wordplay – thank you to several people here!

  45. Chambers defines 22a as “(sl) n. a beginner; a novice. [Short form of newbie (see under new)]. 13a is an abbreviation of a Latin word, used a fair bit in medical circles.

  46. Im stuck on a few
    mainly 14a and 8d,
    got a few letters but any help so I wont be up till 3am appreciated.

  47. 8d engaging gives 1-7 (if you join the two words into one), and then overhaul (anagram) “me less” and “loves”(oo) for 8-15.
    14a, saw (as in saying) gives 1-3, hatchback gives 4, and ‘pick-up’ (homophone) unlocked gives 5-10. The use of unlocked is clever as you need to think of locks of hair.

  48. Thanks Graham M and Tim C for ‘unlocked’, I wad tryimg to get metabolism!? Also I got 8d
    first but had to work the clue out and knew the reindeer’s name so finished 2d, all done except 8a and 7d, and 12a (I had ‘mind’ but 8d gave me an o as 3rd letter ? )

  49. Thanks to PT for the help on 3D. I’d been looking at a partial anagram for INSANITY – Y.

  50. Got 7d, whale is definition, section of next two words!
    Never heard of that whale, do now 12a starts with U? What the…

  51. Franko, 12a is a noodle originating from Japan, which I’d never heard of … but I have now! “Progressively” in the clue translates as “take the first, second, third and fourth letter of the following words.”

  52. franko, 6a is a town on the Murray river. “Discover middle” gives 1, 2, paddle gives 3-5 and close to a gives 6.
    Yes for 12a. Definition is noodle. Look at ‘progressive’ letters in words 2-5 in the clue.

  53. Thanks guys, I already did the progressive letters but the FLW didnt make sense, but since googled it! So got it,
    How does DA sleep at night.

  54. Graham M…you have probably sent many of us googling “petrichor”…I knew there was something I wanted to check but couldn’t remember it till just now…how appropriate the word is for the situation in Sydney . Good on you for the lesson.

  55. Yes, it’s a useful word, isn’t it, happy chappy? I think I first encountered it in one of Mr Astle’s cryptics. And we can feel quite patriotic whenever we throw it into a conversation, as it was Aussie scientists who coined it!

  56. Talking of less common words, today’s (Tuesday) DH cryptic has 11a, 13d and maybe 23d, but enough of this persiflage.

  57. Tim C, I have just looked at the DH … in a few hours perhaps I might be able to enjoy some light raillery myself. See you Friday.

  58. Back again Tim C…I hope you weren’t forced to endure the horror of 21a when you were a kid…I have never forgotten it.

  59. I think I did have it happy chappy, and can’t remember being too impressed. That changed later on in life when I made the real version from fresh ingredients. It didn’t have that chemical taste. I must make some more.

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