DA Confusion for the 9th of October, 2020

Have your confusions sorted out for this week’s DA. And then watch the Tigers beat the Saints!

88 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 9th of October, 2020

  1. All done.

    FOI 1a
    LOI 11a

    Still thinking about a couple of wordplays. Will check with fresh eyes.

    Have fun

    Tigers, Saints – a variation on the Colosseum?

  2. I found myself darting backwards and forwards all over the place, a letter here and a letter there, falling for DA’s past/present, noun/verb, and definition/indicator misdirections. First ones in 17a and 18d, last one in 21 across. Did like the dart clue, the trendy boys, kinky Phyllis, and especially the dodgy payWave instructions.

  3. Relatively fast today, more or less worked from the S and E up to the N and W.

    FOI 13A 9D , LOI 18D 25A.

  4. A mostly pleasant experience today. A few smiles, but they were only little ones. I learnt a new Spaniard. First one in 5d. The three-letter synonym for “lived” that he’s used twice is a bit of a stretch, methinks. My only “Huh?” today is 19a, but no doubt it’ll hit me soon.


  5. 19A was my pick for best as is very clever in my view – and a complete misdirection

  6. Struggled a bit at the start again. First ones were 5D,13A,22D,27A. LOI 4D which I expect will see some discussion today. Favourite is 18D for the definition misdirection.

  7. You made me look again at 13A and I was finally able to parse it! I’ll post it later if anyone still needs it then.

  8. Yes 19A was very clever. I got the answer first then really struggled to try and fit 13A into the wordplay before I had the epiphany.

  9. Re 19A: From the previous comments, there should be at least two people who can guide me. Have got 13A, and all the down intersecting letters except one. Assuming the definition is the first word, the answer is obvious but can’t see the word play.

  10. Alaric,
    19a was the last one I got the word play on. Have a look at what is, actually, written.

  11. Thanks Margaret. I see it now but I don’t think I would be clever enough to have worked that out myself.

  12. Margaret, thanks for your comment of 10.25. It took a while to see what you were saying, but it finally worked for me. I guess I was too involved with over-working the 13a clue, and couldn’t see the “actual “clue.

  13. 19A is my favourite. The other really good ones are 21A and 18D, my last two solved.

    I think 11A is a bit of a stretch. In order to make it work, one needs to drop 4 letters from an 8-letter word. Usually, ‘to drop behind’ means dropping only one letter; if we do that in this case, the 5-letter word involved does not mean ‘forward.’

    My other beef is the use of a one-letter abbreviation for ‘radical.’

  14. Jack,
    For 11a I only had to drop the last letter from a five letter word. I think the relevant word isn’t “forward”.

  15. Yes, Margaret, think English pub games.

    I used a one letter abbreviation for radical but it isn’t in Chambers which makes me wonder whether there’s a wordplay I’m missing.

  16. Most of my acquaintances would, in conversation, substitute the central letter of 1a for “sh”. Clearly, I move in the wrong circles …

  17. Thanks, Margaret. I had used ‘dart back’ as the first 3 letters of the answer. I now see that a truncated dart forms the last 4 letters.

  18. Jack at 12:10. I did find that radical mathematically. Don’t think DA could have clued the crossie with √ :-)

  19. Could someone please give me a hint for 1a please
    Thanks for all the hints so far

  20. Not too bad, still thinking about 20D, assuming I have 26A right….. and 24D seems a bit abstruse….

  21. Gayle,
    I just got out my magnifying glass and looked up my Compact Oxford English Dictionary and they use “R” as a radical in Chemistry.

    The answer is the first word. Build across from there. I think the first synonym is a bit “meh” on this one.

  22. Melanie, the definition for 1a is the first word. Pole in cryptic crosswords could be NSE or W. The next part of the first word is a sort of synonym for ‘troubled’. And the second word in the answer is another word for ‘spectator’ with a change of its middle (heart) letter.

  23. Melanie, think of a seven-letter word that — rather loosely — means “spectator”. It’s a person likely to appear in court. When you change its heart you have the second word of 1a.

  24. Re 1A. Melanie it’s straightforward with the definition at word 1 of the clue.

  25. I stand corrected Margaret. Not mathematics but chemistry. Thankyou. ( I must admit, I didn’t pay much attention, just guessed that Radical and Romeo were both valid in different contexts.)

  26. Ah, Mick at 1:55. I’m with you, and we may have gone down the same rabbit holes. 24 D not abstruse if you get the others right.
    Others might have chimed in by now, so I’ll refresh and come back.

  27. Gayle,
    I had an each way bet on it being one of those. I only take the “Compact” out now if I can’t find something on the Internet. “The Compact Edition of the OED reproduces micrographically, in a single volume, the complete text of the highly acclaimed Second Edition of The Oxford English Dictionary.” It is unwieldy, tissue paper thin pages and needs a magnifying glass to read.

  28. “Gayle says:
    9 Oct 2020 at 2:11 pm
    Melanie, the definition for 1a is the first word. Pole in cryptic crosswords could be NSE or W”

    Surely there are only two poles??

  29. Having obtained a degree in applied chemistry more than half a century ago, I do now recall the use of ‘R’ in a compound called a ‘Grignard reagent,’ which has the general formula R-Mg-X. This ‘R’ represents an organic group which, I guess, can be termed a ‘radical.’

  30. Love the feel of tissue paper Margaret. For my 21st birthday, many moons ago, instead of the usual crystal and whatever else was in vogue then, I requested Skeats Etymological Dictionary. My most valued possession. It was probably equivalent to one week’s pay.
    Wow, the whole OED in a single volume (micrographically). I remember how much space it took on the shelves n the library.

    Mick, 26, 24. 20 I was stuck on too, and made so many wrong attempts. As it turned out, I would (in hindsight) erase the others and go with 24d.

  31. Cokes, thankyou for putting things straight. Only 2 poles. Sorry Melanie., (Hanging head in embarrassment .) Where was I coming from :-) ?

  32. Captain Ken,
    Have a look at what is, actually, written rather than how you interpret it. If you have the answer then part of the clue should jump out at you and then you can build the rest.

  33. I have the answer to 1A but having trouble(!) equating the the first word (after the pole) to ‘troubled’. Can’t think of a context where one could be substituted for the other.

  34. Re 26A and 20D – helps if you go away a bit, I was stuck on 26A starting with an L, but it doesn’t! Now only 24D!

  35. Captain Ken, you need to get 13a to get 19a, right? Wrong. Despite appearances, 19a has nothing to do with 13a.

  36. @ Mick, I know what you were thinking with starting 26a with an L, I did it too Threw everything else out. 24 d is easy peasey, if you just put the tariff in there (which I didn’t).
    It’s late in the day, we don’t need to go on with torture any more, Are you there yet?

  37. 24D easy once 26A is got! Tank could be a verb or noun, either works….

  38. Margaret @2:45 and Gayle. I also have the Compact OED but mine is 2 volumes. Is there a single volume edition? The magnifying glass is essential even with specs and good lighting. It’s less convenient than Chambers which usually does the trick for me. I must get a Macquarie as I think it’s DA’s preferred dictionary. It might have R for radical. Can anyone confirm.

  39. Tim C,
    My Compact is a Single Edition. A two volume would be easier to wrangle. I have mine perched on a writing slope for standard use but it has because a tad “last resort”. Having to use the magnifying glass, and wade through the historical usage references, makes it “difficult” to look anything up. Much prefer a browser, or app, interface to search. However, I do prefer a physical book to read rather than a screen.

    I noticed this morning the time was out. I wonder if the servers are hosted in Queensland?

  40. Um, maybe I have to buy the single volume Compact OED as well as the Macquarie.
    Who knows about the hour. I seem to remember that I’ve noticed an hour difference in the past, maybe during DST, but I can’t be sure.

  41. Never heard of 1-4 in 17A – is this just a crossword/Scrabble term? And I only knew 1-3 of 25A because in one of DA’s segments in Letters and Numbers, he used the word (with its skin) as an example of variation in word usage between Australian states. My Mum would use a national rather than a county adjective when ordering this item.

  42. SlowA,
    For 17a the whole word is “honked” half heartedly. 1-4 is not a standalone term. I do like this because the synonym for “honked” is a tad half hearted itself.

  43. As usual, I am stumped by one that seems to be troubling no one else. Could some kind tripper tell me which word or phrase is the definition in 21a?

  44. As usual the foregoing has helped me with a couple of wordplays already, thank you, leaving 21a (I think I see the 4 letters clued by “Said”…) and 2d (3 is the hook?)
    Also, re 11a, I saw “Dart back” to be clueing 1-3, leaving me an 8-letter word for “forward” (hmmm…) to drop its 4 “behind” letters – HALF of them in fact! (Jack, DA does often cull more than one ‘front’ or ‘behind’ letter, I think?) If “Dart” is clueing the behindless 5-letter word at 4-7, how are 1-3 clued?
    Re 12a, where is 1 clued (the replacement for shortfall’s essential from chicken)?
    Ready to D’oh! as usual!

  45. Johnno2, in 21a “backswing” gives 5, 4, 3, 2.

    In 11a, there are two “darts”, the first one back (3, 2, 1) and the second, after dropping its final letter gives 4-7.

  46. Re 21A johnno, ‘backswing’ clues 5-2.
    11A ‘dart’ clues both 1-3 and 4-7, hence “back and forward”, in other words “dart back and dart forward” which is just shortened to “dart back and forward”.
    12A is a bit dodgy IMO. Better would have been ‘chicken’s roll’ but that doesn’t read as well.
    3 is the hook in 2D

  47. We crossed over, Tim!

    Johnno, in 2d, the other letters come from “located” without the “t” (“boat’s stern”).

  48. I was half expecting a comment on 4D yesterday, complaining that it wasn’t cryptic, but for once the ellipses meant something. :)

  49. Thanks Margaret re 17A explanation. And Tim C, a rare thumbs up from me too for the ellipses! Not sure of DA’s usual practice when referring to other clues, but was the inclusion of the hyphen in 19A a subtle hint of the misdirection?

  50. Not sure about the hyphen in 17A, but that clue had me and a lot of others going for a while.

  51. 19a very clever but how do you get NT for 8,9?

    12a pls explain the world play

  52. Richard, methinks you’re barking up the wrong tree with 19a. I suggest you write out the clue with the numbers spelt out.

    12a in reverse is a word for young chickens reversed, missing “t” (“take shortfall essentially”).

  53. Thanks Graham and Tim – D’oh, I guess!
    And Tim and Slow, I wondered about 4d, too. I presume you’re saying double definition?
    DA often overlaps clueing, where other setters use the connection just to complete a grammatical overall ‘surface’.
    Re 19a, he does use the hyphen normally. And then, as we know, Ignore The Punctuation! :-)

  54. SlowA, regarding the skinned deli meat, I’m wondering what your Mum said. There was a German word which was changed around about the same time some people of German heritage. including Australians by birth like my grandfather as child, were interned during WWII. I think that word is still in use in South Australia today.

  55. Found this week’s DA fairly straightforward and enjoyable Completed before consulting Trippers
    FOI 20D and then completed southern half before heading north.
    Liked 11a, 25a and18d.
    Like many still working on construction of 19a. I will return to Margaret’s posts and consider further.
    As for 23a I inserted radical letter into surrealist then used. 1st and last letters of Romeo thinking they were radicals .
    I’m probably off the mark.
    I suspect we’re experiencing a lull in DA’s
    degree of difficulty and expect a tester coming.

  56. I’d never heard of the deli meat until I migrated here. It was called something different in England (a bit ironically as it’s the name as an English place).
    For 23A, IanS, I thought the surrealist was 1,2,3(or 4) and 5, with radical being 4(or 3) and Romeo 6.

  57. From the Lonely Planet:
    ***** sausage which is apparently a baloney-ish thing made from, according to someone , “processed pork and godknowswhatbeast meat.” It’s known by other names in other parts of Australia
    > there is no word used everywhere in Australia for the type of sausage known variously as Belgium sausage, Byron sausage,*****, Empire sausage, fritz, German sausage, luncheon sausage, polony, Strasburg, and Windsor sausage.

  58. Or 4 or 3 as Tim C says. Actually, that’s a poor clue in hindsight. with the various options, but the result’s the same.

  59. Yes, Gayle, I knew it as luncheon meat and I was gagging when I first ate it for lunch (dinner in Northern England) for the first time at secondary (high) school.

  60. My Dad was a butcher and I know what goes in those smallgoods. (Why are they called smallgoods and why have I never looked that up?) He was butchering in the era of sawdust on the floor, so they didn’t trip over and could sweep it up, but I assure you, he never put sawdust impregnated with blood and fat in his snags (and why are they called snags?).

  61. Gayle, Mum used to order German sausage – Wikipedia says the term fell out of favour in WW One but nobody told Mum! The author of your Lonely Planet piece sounds American, because ‘baloney’ (derived from Bologna) is used in the US. Another mystery…the US use ‘wieners’ for hot dogs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wienermobile is worth a look) but for some reason they don’t seem to have sausages as we know them.

  62. Graham M, what’s wrong with Spam, especially with Spam, eggs, Spam, bacon and Spam. ;)

  63. Thanks Graham

    19a yes I was deluded re 13 ex 3 – I read it as “I” . Understood.

    and thanks for pullets- didn’t think of that.

  64. All understood except the ellipsis side of 4d… does it actually correspond to 3d somehow? I have another word for hyphen, but can’t see how that also describes the ellipsis

  65. The ellipses connect 4D to 3D. This gives a double definition. “bit” and the hyphen both define the answer.

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