DA Confusion for the 20th of June, 2014

Here’s where you have your confusions sorted out.

146 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 20th of June, 2014

  1. My first in was 9D. Guessed answer, then tried to make sense of clue / definition. Got an inkling which gave me 19D and the penny dropped.

  2. Yep, without 19D yet have cracked it . Whew, have to leave now and get ready for the weekend. See you later ….

  3. One quibble: in 5a the “reflected” is redundant. As far as I can tell, there is no reversal.

  4. Oh, sorry Andy W, just catching up .. 19D is the key cryptocruciverbally. Look carefully at the first word. Missed that on my first go through. Then have to apply that to other clues.

  5. I got 9D first, which gave me 13A, worked out 29A then stalled. Wordplay not making sense…yet.

  6. Very difficult today. 3/4 done. With regard to 5a. I believe reflected is relevant for a 4 letter word for 2d. Letters 4,3,2,1.

  7. 5A: I think 2D describes the relevant part of 5D better if it is not reversed. It’s not helping that that part of 5D is a word whether you reverse it or not.

  8. I am completely lost. Way too clever for me. I think I have 26a and 6d but in both definition doesn’t seem quite right. Is that because of the ‘pure 19 down’? I have looked at the first word of 19 down from every which way. But nothing. And 9d I have no idea about. Any help?

  9. Thanks Rupert, I think I may even have 9d now. But I can’t see where the first part of the first word of the answer, or what Cardies have to do with it. I guess I’ll have to crack 19d.

  10. Warren, I have looked carefully. I have come up with another word from it. But I still can’t crack the clue.

  11. Sandy – 19D – so what is a synonym of the other word you came up with? And how do the first word and other word relate to each other?

  12. All done. Much reliance on the wordfinder this week. A nice gimmick by DA. One benefit of monkeying with the definitions is that I’m not confused on any of the wordplay!

  13. Sandy. Another angle. But use 9.34 post to all answers. Arena , forgetting about. Letters 123, flyweight letters 4567.

  14. I actually meant to ask about 9 d but got confused
    A bit closer thanks to Rupert at 9:12 but last six letters of 9 d still defeat me

  15. Thanks Rupert, it had hit me in the shower.
    MJH the last nine letters of 9d are all in ‘A tilt? Pray, translate’

  16. So now having both 9D and 19D, I am not seeing it.
    Yes, I will give you 6D & 13A. But there is no element of 9D in the definition of 29A.
    And I have one cross letter of 26A, which does not appear in the definition, so unsure how 19D can apply.

  17. The rubric says “every clue”.
    Looking at the two non-key answers I have, the last word of the definition for 13A is a 19D related to the answer, and the first word of the definition of 29A is a straight 19D of the answer.
    But then it doesn’t apply to 9D or 19D, nor (apparently) to 6D.
    The rubric says “every clue”.
    Looking at the two non-key answers I have, the last word of the definition for 13A is a 19D related to the answer, and the first word of the definition of 29A is a straight 19D of the answer.
    But then it doesn’t apply to 9D or 19D, nor (apparently) to 6D.

  18. The rubric does indeed say every clue, and it is correct. You need to parse the rest of the instruction more carefully.

    You are on the wrong lines if you think the last 5 words of 13A are an adequate definition as printed.

  19. Black Pen, how can “the first word of the definition of 29A [be] a straight 19D of the answer” when it has six letters and the answer has 7?

  20. Sorry, Sandy, in the hunt to crack this beast I have confused a synonym with a 19D.

  21. Actually managed to finish, with constant help of a word finder to work with the double sided clues. But still puzzling about wordplay for 7d (second part), 16a (middle) and 25d (middle). Any hints?

  22. I am sincerely confused as to where to start. Normally I can break at least one clue in the first 6 hours of sitting, but this one has me wholly stumped. Any extra elucidation, or a good starting point would be appreciated.

  23. Goodness! Thank heavens for this website – and I have 4 and a half clues out only!
    In case some people were on the same incorrect path I was – I thought 9D’s connection to 19 D was about opposites (whoever saw cardies at those particular functions?) and it’s not. Warren at 9.40 am – you saved my sanity. So only 20 and a half clues to go.

  24. Ben, I got out 13A first. It is defined by the first three words of the clue. The answer is something “made with hatred” where hatred could also be described as “elaborate”. If you get this, you have the fourth letter of 9D. The last nine letters of 9D are from “A tilt, Pray translate”. The five letter word is easy to get, then the first word with the fourth letter already in should be easy. Using the theme, you may get a “cardies” at the answer to 9D. If you solve this, you should be able to guess the theme and that gives 19D.

    Hope this isn’t too convoluted but it does make sense – maybe just in retrospect.

  25. Sorry Mort, doesn’t make sense to me, even in retrospect. 13a is not related to hatred but a 9d of hatred. Ben and MJH, I suggest you look carefully at Julienne’s post just above. 9d is essential.

  26. MJH, the last 9 letters of 19d are a 9d indicated by the bracketed words. The second word could be Labor or Liberal but in this case is neither.

  27. Sandy, I didn’t say that 13A is “related to hatred”. I’m aware that hatred is a 19D and I tried to assist by pointing out that “elaborate”, when applied to “hatred” could also be an indicator of 19D.

    It’s often hard to give a hint without giving too much away…

  28. 7d: Break gives 1 and 6 – 9; 22D gives 2 – 4. It’s confusing because 22D could also give 1 – 4.
    16a: “because of ebbing” gives letters 4, 3, 2.
    25d: “on” gives letters 2 – 4.

  29. That gives me an idea Mort to help those struggling…
    Mort was being convoluted because he was trying to avoid a word that is often used here in this forum but is missing today because it would be a spoiler. That word is what you are looking for.

  30. Thanks Rupert. I hadn’t come back to say I had worked them out. But I am sure that will help others.

  31. “Gayle | June 20, 2014 at 8:27 am |
    Oh, sorry Andy W, just catching up .. 19D is the key cryptocruciverbally. Look carefully at the first word. Missed that on my first go through. Then have to apply that to other clues.”

    I’d read that many times but only now it’s clicked. Had to go weed the garden and a few other chores first, but I got this now! Thank you Gayle!

  32. OK I have just spent another 90 minutes on this, to no result.
    To me, the rubric seems to say there is a 9d of each answer in it’s clue- how else can it be read? What am I missing?

  33. I think I have it now, it’s a bit of a doh moment
    Thank you everyone, this site really adds spice to my day off!

  34. Black Pen: it’s what it says. There’s a 9D in the definition. The last 5 words of 13A are not a good definition, surely? What would 9D do to help?

  35. Replacing the wrong clue number:

    Black Pen: it’s what it says. There’s a 19D in the definition. The last 5 words of 13A are not a good definition, surely? What would 19D do to help?

  36. And for me at least similarly with the last 3 words of 25D. It does not scan to me. So what word would make it scan and how would you get it from what is written.

  37. “Rupert | June 20, 2014 at 9:12 am |
    9D: Cognac, Cointreau and lemon juice? Sounds vile …”

    Thank you, this didn’t make sense until now. 9D solved. But I’d have one if it was offered!

  38. Aargh!! – almost there but 8D missing, I may have 16 A but not sure why and still not sure of the last three letters of 13 A – surely there are two possibilities (and this also contributed to my thinking that the theme should be opposites – what else could be the opposite of made with hatred?). I felt that today I had to be a crossword solver, then compiler, then solver again.
    That off my chest – Ray 25 D wordplay – 1st letter “coming closer”, letters 2-4, synonym for “on”, letter 5 “unknown” as in algebra. Definition is last 4 words one of which is a 19D (or should that be “an 19 D”)

  39. Just three to get. Meanwhile, can anyone explain (might be hard to do without spoiling) how the definition part of 16a works?

  40. AG as I posted above I only think I have 16A but it’s through the definition which is “famed Aral” one of which is a/an 19D. If this is the case, can you explain the wordplay for me?

  41. AG the def is the first two words of the clue, where one of those words gets the 19d treatment (and also a capital letter).

  42. Julienne, 16A: Sea, say = first letter; gains time +letter 5; because of ebbing = 4-2.

  43. Sandy – I can’t make any sense of it – I possibly have the wrong famed Aral – I was thinking cricket and then maybe a play on the word “brine” for sea – can you confirm for me that I am completely hopelessly muddled? (and this might then help me with 8 D)

  44. Not a cricketer, a character. Not brine. ‘Say’ sea and you should hear the first letter.

  45. Finally!! – all out – thanks Rupert and Sandy – no wonder 8D flummoxed me as I had it finishing with an “a”.

  46. Thanks on 16a, people. I had been fixated on the common English meaning of it, and the fact that “farm” can be found among the letters of the first two words!

  47. Julienne – thanks. However I was not asking a question (I have it all out) but attempting to give an answer to Black Pen posted above.

  48. Wow what a hideously clever construction this week! Shows how much I use the definition part of the clue – really struggled without those.
    I got 12A first from the wordplay alone. Then 19D which was enable me to work out what was going on!

    Now almost there apart from the bottom right. Any help with 20A, or 21D?
    I think I have an answer for 27A but don’t understand the wordplay. Ditto 7D.

  49. Thanks to above hints i have 19d and 9d so I think I get what I have to do, but I have no idea what cardies has to do with 9d even after I’ve 19ded it ot should I be including Moore’s words of the clue in my application of 19d?

  50. Having read all these comments I think only three of my attempts at answers were actually correct. Now that I’ve got 19D maybe I’ll be able to get a few more. This is so frustrating!

  51. That should have been more words not Moore’s words. Small keypad, big fingers, predictive text…

  52. No idea what he means by a verbal 9d although I’m pretty sure I have the answer to 9d. I also have 19d but nothing else. Just finding it too hard to work out which word in each clue is the one that I have to apply 19d to. Even if i think I’ve got the right word, trying to find the right 19d for it is driving me nuts. Clever idea DA, but just too hard.

  53. DA is very clever today. I still have not found the anagram of “cardies;” nor have I worked out 10A. 16A gave me trouble as I was trying to get Steffi into it; now I see it’s really that tomb lady.

  54. Julian – 20A – “Ads” is the 19D and defn. “accepted” = letters 4,5. “occupying” = container. “musical” = letters 9,8,7,6,3. “record” = letters 2,1. “review” = reversal (as indicated).
    21D – “Saps” is the 19D and defn. “airborne skein” (as in flying flock) = letter 1. “one in pain?” = letters 2,3,4,5,6,7.
    Start with those and see is 27A drops.

  55. Jack – “Cardies” –> Cointreau, Grand Marnier, Grand Gala or another triple sec, and lemon juice.
    10A – Defn = first 2 words. 2nd word is 19D. “opening” = synonym for letters 1,2,3,4,5,6. “two holes” = letters 7,8.

  56. Julian – 7D – defn and 19D = 1st word. “22-down” = synonym for letters 2,3,4. “washed veneer” = letter 5. “during” = container. “break” = synonym for letters 1,6,7,8,9.

  57. @Ray, with wordplay as convoluted as you describe in 20a, i think I’m going to shred thus one.

  58. Julian – 27A – defn and 19D = 1st word. “very dry” = synonym for letters 1,2,6,7. “about” = container. “gun” = type for letters 5,4,3. “recall” = reversal (as indicated).

  59. Thanks Ray. I had literally just pencilled those in thinking they had to be the answers but hadn’t worked out why! I had been trying to 19D the last word of 20A.
    Now understand 27A as well (I was using “greenish wrapping” to get the GH and the other letters weren’t making sense – but I should have been taking the wrapping off “tights”!)
    All done! I actually didn’t get the first word of 9D for quite a while, 19D gave me the key.
    14A is the only remaining one where I don’t get the wordplay – at least for the 1st 6 letters.

  60. Ray – thanks but that’s actually 29A you described. However I have 27A now.

    nn – I must say the clue I find the least convincing of the whole thing is 9D. Cardies doesn’t make sense to me either. But it doesn’t really matter. If you get 19D that tells you all you need. It’s much tougher than usual without the definitions visible but it’s do-able.

    Ray – sorry if this has been described earlier but I still can’t see exactly where the 19D in the 9D clue definition is? The wordplay bit is fine.

  61. If someone could point out how the answer or the clue for 25d is in any way a 19d of the answer or the clue for 25d, I’d be grateful.

  62. OK have now found cardies – shows how little I know about (or drink) these things…..

    Black Pen – you need to 19D the last word. Then the definition is “luxury of dubious …..” (and for that final word, don’t think of something you put in your mouth). Wordplay was described very well by Rupert earlier.

  63. Still no idea how cardies is a drink, red wine person myself, don’t go in for fancy, expensive mixes

  64. Two hours, two answers, too convoluted for my tired brain. No idea how the rest of you managed to get anywhere with this one. Shredding it and having some tea.

  65. It’s sad, I got 9D, 19D 6D, 13A and with Jack mega hint 16A.

    The rest I have nothing. I’ve put in and erased so many times my newspaper can’t take it anymore. I’ll have to wait until tomorrow to be put out of my misery. Thanks for all the great help, everyone.

  66. Ray that was the only 19d i could find for cardies, had never heard of it in relation to drinks. Should have added “too obscure” to my list above!

  67. Been to Ian’s site for answers and explanations. Glad I gave up. Lots of words I’d never heard of either as answers or as part of the wordplays. Will now add “too clever by half” to my list.

  68. Need help? This grid isn’t worth giving up. I’d say probably DA’s best grid this year.

  69. Thanks Ray. I now understand the proprietary product in 10A. I also now get the 19D for cardies thanks to your motorbike reference.
    14A was another that took me ages to work out, but it was worth the effort as it’s a pretty good one.

  70. Two firsts for me today. First post to this website (though I’ve been reading it for about a year) and first time in six years of attempting DA puzzles that I’ve failed to get a single answer. I’ve read all the above and have no clues. No idea what the ‘cardies’ refers to. Giving up!!
    Nevertheless thanks for all the help this site has given me previously.

  71. cardies is an anagaram of sidecar, which is a cocktail made of up various liquors, and has been mentioned throughout. overall, this was a pretty shit crossword !

  72. This is the first crossword I’ve ever done where even with the answer key, I still have solving work to do. Most of the clues are still beyond my skills, yet I think many can be solved without the 19D.

  73. Having spent ages pouring over the solutions I still don’t understand in 11A what anagram of “reunites” gives me trains, in 23A what lava has to do with organs or where the mad (or dam) comes from in 18A. Can anyone out there enlighten me?

  74. Ann, retinues is an anagram of “reunites”.
    “off the wall” is “mad”
    groans is an anagram of another type of beachwear – think Bali

  75. Hi Ann. With trains in 11a. The definition was retinues. Hense trains/coaches. For madam part of the def was bordello. Off the wall = mad. Before noon = am. For lava lava. Part if the definition was sarong. Therefore lethal outflow being lava lava.
    Now in today’s herald for 17a/19a, is the answer Well Done?

  76. Warren | June 21, 2014 at 11:05 am |
    Aral

    If ever there was a sign I have to put this away and do something else it was that. I was looking at farm synonyms…revoke my gamer’s license.

  77. Having got 6 clues out myself but, even after reading so many “helpful” suggestions here, being unable to go further, I have moved on to today’s (Saturday’s) DS puzzle.

    I believe that the clue for 19d is incorrect? If I have it right, then the clue should refer to “lesser ape”?

  78. OK…OK… Just after I pressed enter, I realised that “great” and “ape” are not to be taken together as “great ape”.

  79. Scott, thank you for your explanation of cardies. Never heard of sidecar as the name of a cocktail so would never have got this. Sadly even now that I’ve looked at the answers I remain baffled by all but about five. Clearly this one got away from me. Time to move on and hope for better things next week.
    Regards

  80. Woohoo! Finally completed without assistance. Really enjoyed the theme this week, luckily 19D wasn’t too difficult as a starting point otherwise probably wouldn’t have even got one clue out. Hsf the wrong anagram for ‘groans’ for s loooong time, thought it was organs

  81. Thanks Gayle for your faithfullness. This week we are with a lot of the trippers. No pleasure in this one at all. Where is Arthur?. Trust he is OK.

  82. sorry if I missed this in above
    17 doesn’t PLAICE (the fish) as in the cryptic part, need that “I”? how is the loss of that I clued into PLACE in 17? no ‘sounds like’? (if I got the answer right)…. thanx tripperz

  83. I can’t believe there was any negativity with this grid! By far the best test this year.

  84. JPR – “caught” is the homophone indicator.

    Still five to go but pretty much put of puff. Thanks all for assistance!!

  85. Oh I had to use a mobile hornet tonight – no I get it … I’ve still only hit nine and I’m halfway through the help above !

  86. Nice one from LR today with a bit of a world cup theme. Much easier than last Friday’s DA!

  87. nn, agree. I got LR out without knowing hardly anything about soccer – the double defs helped.
    I quite liked 12A Lads from European sides chuck fruit, as I know more about music. But I don’t really get the punt boot cross reference to corner kicks. (soccer knowledge needed for that one I’m guessing)

    @Jupiter that was my take too – anagrams, shaken and mixed.

  88. @Gayle I think punt and boot just refer to kicking, although I’ve only heard punt used in reference to AFL or gridiron, not soccer. It took me a long while to get corner as the first word as I don’t really see how that was clued, it was only when I had a few cross letters I worked out what it had to be.

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