DA Confusion for the 17th of January, 2014

Have your confusions sorted out for this week’s DA extravaganza.

110 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 17th of January, 2014

  1. Clever in several ways. Also a bit different to normal I think. But once the “theme” is cracked, pretty simple.
    Key to me was 20A.

  2. Well, I have two solved so far. Trying to think of a fourteen word famous statement, like “We will fight them on the beaches …” No clue so far.

  3. I got 6/2/5/7 straight away, and as Ray says, the rest is fairly easy, so I finished in record time: 22 minutes.

    Not sure of the wordplay in 16D or 10A.

  4. Rupert – 16D – defn = last 2 words. “tumultuous” = anagrind. fodder = “one pint in” + “dump to”.
    10A – defn = first 2 words. “pink tip” = letter 1. “sort of red” = 4 letter synonym for letters 3,4,5,6. “in” = container. “swirl” = anagrind. fodder = “3-down green” for give letters 2,7,8.

  5. is there any actual wordplay in the definition for 6/2/5/7? It looks like he’s just whining about how hard it is to remember

  6. 10A: Thanks, Ray, that’s roughly the lines I was thinking along, but I would have expected “3A” green to give a different letter 7. Either 3A is being used in a different way than usual, or it’s a synonym for green that I don’t recognise.

    Also, 10A itself is not blue.

  7. Well, I count 56 from I to end of mnemonics, Ray, but doesn’t give me a hint of the answer. Have five solved thus far, will continue looking.

  8. 10A – My guess is that DA was trying to stick so hard with the use of colours in the clue, he may have taken a little liberty as to how to apply 3D to the word “green”.

  9. Arthur, start with “How” and write down the number of letters in each word until you get to “mnemonics”. See if that sequence of numbers rings any bells.

  10. I usually come to this site for help later in the day to end the frustration of never finishing, however today the theme came quickly and the rest followed. Oh what a feeling!

  11. Thanks Ray, but no, it doesn’t. I was looking for a total of 56, but that group of words only seems to come to 52. Have probably six now, if I have 19A right, first two letters obvious, but cannot relate remainder to clue at all, but it is a synonym for 3D.

  12. Arthur, sounds like you have 19A and 3D right. For 6/2/5/7 you’re not looking at the total number of letters, but the number of letters in each word in the clue. They’re the first fourteen numbers in a 19A sequence you should recognise.

  13. Well I gave up quickly and came over here to end the frustration. Thanks to comments above have got the key for 6/2/5/7. Would never have got it. Definitely right brain stuff today. Have fun Trippers. Off to work.

  14. 16d was the out for me. This gave letter 1 for 20a which got half the grid out.

  15. One small quibble: I don’t spell 16A that way but instead use the more common “J” instead of “H”

  16. Rupert, the only number sequence I am familiar with is Fibonacci. Though I taught radio/electronics, my maths knowledge is very limited, I cannot see any sequence in those numbers at all. Thanks for trying.

  17. Arthur, don’t think of a number sequence, think of one irrational number.

  18. Saw the sequence of numbers straight away but have no idea how to get the answer to 6 2 5 7 d from this. It did give me 19a though but I don’t understand the wordplay for the second half. Presume I am looking for a word meaning couple with a letter missing.

    Arthur, I am sure you have heard of the number before. And it is a 19a number not a sequence. It is easy as.

  19. Ah, thanks Steve and nn. Yes, I see now how foolish I was not to recognise that number sequence. All I have to do now is relate that ratio to the clue, nothing suggests itself at the moment.

  20. A slow start but once the theme became clear then the rest came out fairly easily. I have 3d but just can’t understand the wordplay.

  21. nn, 19a you are correct, think of a 5 letter word for ‘couple’ as in link and remove the first letter.

  22. Pat – for “Brenda” to become a piece of “underwear” (Bra) then it has to be 3D.

  23. Still not getting very far. Have 19a but can’t come up with anything that fits the only cross letter I have for 18a that makes any sense. As 18a appears to be the key to the rest of it I am in trouble

  24. Repeat for 6D / 2D / 5D / 7D – count the number of letters in EACH word of the clue. That is the wordplay.

  25. Penny finally dropped on 6,2,5,7. Wasn’t looking for something quite that obvious!

  26. nn, to get the wordplay for 18a, you need 17a. For 17a take each word of the clue as a seperate prefix/name of the answer.

  27. Thanks Steve, now if I only had 17a, but at least I now have lots of cross letters so should have a reasonable chance

  28. For me, 11a was the key to getting the theme. It’s not that hard to see that the definition, “summits”, comprises a synonym for “experts” in turn acting as a container. Then get the content by “subtracting” the latter from the former.

  29. Have to surrender this one, have only solved ten, still have no clue to the 6,2, 5,7D thing. Getting too hot to think. Really sad to give up so early, but without that word sequence, it is hopeless.

  30. Arthur, if you have the ratio, look at it as a decimal and refer back to Rupert’s earlier posts.

  31. I think DA chose a convenient way to spell his native Americans to fit in with his theme. I would have used a J myself.

  32. Wow, this was like being back in Year 8 maths. Like Ray at 4.53am (!!) 20a was the clincher for me. Can anyone just enlighten me on the wordplay for 17a? Otherwise it all makes sense.

  33. Sorry, have just noticed Ray’s 6.49am explanation for 10a. Thanks Ray.

  34. By the way, Alan G. (9.27am), I agree with you on the native Americans in 16a!

  35. Re 10a, I don’t think the last element is well clued. For me, “3-down green” indicates letters 2, 3 and 4, not the letters 3, 4 and 5 required to get the presumed answer … unless there’s an alternative interpretation of “green”?

  36. Absolutely agree, Geoff – DA was really trying it on with “3-down green”. “Pink tip” is a bit of a logical reversal as well. Not my favourite clue!

  37. Lovely piece of work today. Agree with critics of 10a though. I suspect actual DA blooper. 3d brilliant. Saw the theme by pondering the unusual word lengths of 3, 4 and 5 and concluding they must be numbers.

  38. Wow,all out by lunchtime Friday in spite of several interruptions to concentration by CFA pager alerts.Fingers crossed everyone…it`s a pig of a day.
    Thanks as ever to all you helpful folk.

  39. Been out for a couple of hours and just got back to it. The rest fell out fairly easily. Don’t get the word play for 8a.
    Agree with above comments on 10a unless we are missing something. As for the spelling in 16a, I think both ways are ok. Presumably one derives from original English contact, the other from Spanish. I doubt the natives would have used either spelling before Europeans arrived!

  40. @ sheepish, yeah horrible day, fingers crossed tonight’s change doesn’t make it worse. Thanks for the great job you people do.

  41. Another thought regarding 10a does sort of red mean almost red, thereby flying letters 4,t and 6 of the answer? i.e. almost is a deletion indicator.
    Alternatively are we supposed to apply 3d to green and to the red?

  42. nn 8a def is first word,think 8 letter synonym for bear that isn`t furry and “rescue” the queen from it.

  43. nn sorry,meant to acknowledge your thanks to CFA folk,but got excited and hit send.Hoping to sit around for next couple of days,but expect to be sent to Grampians fire.

  44. Another thought for 10A – could ‘sort of red’ be an indirect anagram of NOSE? Then in ER-E (anagram of 3d green)

  45. I’ve followed the hints above and have got nowhere (except 16d). After reading the advice regarding 6, 2, 5, 7 I am left with a meaningless jumble of numbers instead of my usual meaningless jumble of letters. I think I might have 16a, having read Alan G’s comment at 9.24 am. I shall spell it in that peculiar way and see if it helps.

  46. Sam, my views on 10a are known, but I suspect deciphering “sort of red” in that way is actually more far-fetched than the unsatisfactory “3d green” we’ve more or less settled on (going back to Ray at 6.49am). The only question is what’s the lesser evil.

  47. Hi all, this is my first time so I hope I don’t give anything away or repeat someone else’s answer that I didn’t understand.
    To explain the ‘green’ in 10a we apply 3d then ‘swirl’ the letters we have left in green to get letters 2,7,8.
    Some of this is repeated from above but for the rest of the clue; the letters left over from green have the ‘sort of red’ inside (‘in’) them (3,4,5,6), letter 1 is the tip of pink and the answer is actually blue (not a synonym of the colour).

  48. I’ve got it all out; I suspected the theme number and 20A gave it to me. Thought 10A was bad not for wordplay but for definition (I’ve seen 3D to refer to both letters or just the last before), but the definition defines a lot, and .: defines nothing.

  49. I agree about 10a – but DA does tend to assume that words like ‘tip’ and ‘end’ can mean either first or last, and just leave it to you to work out which makes best sense of the rest of the clue. If I’m going to quibble this week, I think I’m more likely to take exception to the description ’19-18a’ as a sort of definition of 6detc. The ratio in question is not itself 19a, it just has a 19a number of decimal places.

  50. Mary, don’t forget about the 18a part of the clue. I read the definition as “mnemonics for the 19a 18a”. The ratio in question is sometimes known as “an 19a 18a”.

  51. hello everyone
    can I have a hint for the theme?
    I’ve never managed to solve a themed DA puzzle yet
    but this one seems a bit more approachable
    I have some of the unthemed clues

    x ella

  52. The discussion above on 10a seems to ignore the ‘swirl’ on the end. Green is not only endless, but swirled.

  53. Sandy, jump is just another example of the definition, like all the other words in the clue. Think 1980s TV series with Johnny Depp, and 2012 film based on the series.

  54. Ella, surely you remember the most important 19a 18a in mathematics. There is a good discussion of it earlier in the thread, starting with Ian’s question at 6.45am

  55. finished it after 2.5 hours after 2.5 champagnes. loved it. rupert how interesting that you finished it in 22minutes, is that divisible by 7? Cha-pi- eau 2 u!

  56. I am feeling very happy as I had all finished by lunch time today, Friday. .I. Have never finished so early before, and mostly don’t finish at all. Thank you to all the bright people who share their knowledge, and perhaps their hunches.

  57. Martin if the film you’re referring to is about a shipwrecked Indian chap it’s not based on the series at all … but he does write it from memory on the board for
    edification of his classmates

  58. hi thanks, I get the number name
    ….. but I never had to remember it, so
    nothing more comes to mind….
    hmmmm……. but ill keep trying… the theme is closer
    but still not there

  59. Ella, if i told you that the second word of 6,2,5,7 d sequence
    in a different context is synonymous with cape or headland
    would that help?
    and there’s a one to one correspondence between the clue & answer words, excluding that specific word!

  60. I’m giving up, for the first time in months. Absolutely no idea what that seemingly random string of numbers has to do with anything, and still have only two other answers. I’d blame the heat, except that others haven’t had the same problems.

  61. Ella, if you are still around and you have the mathematical Greek lettered number, then Google for it in decimal form and spell it out in words for 6,2,5,7d. You can also look at the number of letters in each word of the clue!
    For other clues that refer to ‘today’s 18A’, try to incorporate the word for that Greek letter.
    I hope this helps?

  62. Gil 5.56pm: my comment about movies and TV series was in response to Sandy’s 3.59pm question about “jump” in 17a, nothing to do with numbers or shipwrecked Indians!

  63. sorry martin you know the film i was talking about anyway!
    i’m using voice input but the trouble is that when i go back to correct anything the cursor position is out of wack.
    it makes life easier if i ignore capitalisations and punctuation
    there is a 1998 darren aronofsky film titled after today’s theme! Mad!

  64. Anyone able to send through a blank grid for today’s DA please? I’ve been up north where the SMH doesn’t seem to be found. The poor buggers in Queensland seem forced to read Murdoch trash (on paper at least).

  65. @ Jonathan, hang on there. I’m a Queenslander. That’s good loo paper. Have sent the grid. No good to me.

  66. Can’t tell from this end whether I’ve sent the link correctly so if anyone else wants to send Jonathan a blank grid please do so.

  67. can any non-troll visitor to this site please let me know if they think that anywhere here i’ve a blurted out answers beyond reasonable hints

  68. I have seen the solution in this morning’s paper and I am none the wiser.

  69. Dave R – 6D / 2D / 5D / 7D is the irrational constant number (the theme) written in words to 12 decimal places (so number-point-12 decimal places). The word play is the number of letters in each word (13 words) of the clues (written as words) is the 13 numbers. Then the defn is you like is that the 13 words are a “mnemonic” (way to remember) this number to 12 decimal places.
    This irrational constant number then appears as its 2 letter word name (“today’s 18-across) in several other answers.
    Hope that helps.

  70. Dave R – this might help. My second out was 11A but I wasn’t sure. Then 9A required the same two letters. It took me a while but I had learned those two letters to 100 places during boring lessons over 50 years ago. From Gil it seems today’s kids won’t know the first 6 let alone being able to rise to the challenge if DA had chosen the most common letter in the English alphabet.

  71. Gil, you have done nothing wrong. Long time readers of this forum know to ignore certain postings.

  72. Gil, no Ray and Steve came closer. As their hints are very direct.
    Interestingly, I memorised the theme to exactly that many words without a mnemonic but I still had to come here for a hint.
    The problem with 10a for me is that it’s not actually blue. When sold in a steel container it has always been clear !
    Another product like that is purple in Norway … Not here !

    I have never seen 16avwithbthat spelling, so the cross letter for the theme couldn’t give me that unique number. I liked 9a for its fun use of terrible and today.

  73. And I – even I – would celebrate
    In rhymes inapt the great
    Immortal Syracusan rivaled nevermore
    Who by his wondrous lore,
    Untold us before,
    Made the way straight
    How to circles mensurate.

  74. There’s a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
    There’s a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
    Gonna kill that rat that’s what i’m gonna do!
    Gonna kill that rat!

  75. I’m surprised DA did not keep this crossword until March 14. Thanks for your mnemonic, Steve R. Should we be debating about truncated or rounded decimal expansions (is DA’s last word in 7D the correct one!?)? In any case, the mnemonic I learnt at school was:
    Sir, I bear a rhyme excelling
    In mystic words and magic spelling,
    Celestrial sprites elucidate
    all my own strivings can’t relate …

  76. Thanks all – I got Gayle’s copy (love the digital version – it’s saves me cleaning up the paper scan!). I’ll be back soon with the blank and filled in grids for the last few weeks. Nice to know I am providing a useful service for the deprived, but enlightened, Queenslanders.

  77. Gil,Ive been on holiday for a couple of weeks and just caught up on last weeks confusion.Do you mind if I ask how old you are?Reason I ask is that your conversation with JS last week leads me to believe you are in the 10 to 12 year old bracket.

  78. OK, new policy.

    Narky comments just get deleted.

    john and JimmyDArat, that means you two.

  79. Ten times I give a smile
    AS keeper prime
    One shows especial gratitude

  80. LR is back on mondays. Found today’s a struggle, had to do lots of word searches, but got it all except 28A. Perhaps this is a person?
    Don’t understand the wordplay in 18A “18 holes. First two holes welcome to Aussies”???
    Not quite sure about the wordplay in 17a either. Maybe “Party meets” should be “partly meets” to explain letters 3, 4 and 6 of the answer

  81. nn, as there is no forum set up for the rest of the Fairfax stable for this week I will give you some assistance here.
    28A – Definition is “beach”. “Male” = 1; “boxer” = 2,3,4; “odd bout” = 5,6.
    18A – Definition is “Extended 22D”. “golf” = 1; synonym for “18 holes” = 2,3,4,5,6; “First two holes” = 7,8; “welcome to Aussies” = “9,10,11,12.
    17D – Definition is “lovers’ tiff”; synonym for “Party” = 1,2; “meets at disco oddly” = 3,4,5,6,7,8.

  82. Thanks Alan
    I was worried that the definition of 28a might have been male boxer, a field with which I am not familiar. Got the beach now (and had heard of the boxer who is 2,3,4).
    18a I had the answer and your explanation of the wordplay makes sense now. (must learn the radio alphabet!)
    17d again I had the answer but was reading oddly as an anagrind, with disco and four of the letters of meets being the fodder. I just couldn’t get rid of the ‘S’ and one of the ‘E’s in meet, so wondered if it was a misprint and it should have been partLy meets. Your explanation makes much more sense.

  83. Thank you, Ray and Mike. I’ve been out of internet contact for a few days. I’m afraid I still have no idea what the two letters are, nor what all those numbers mean. As for “irrational constant number”… I went to school too many decades ago to have remembered anything like that, even if I knew it then. But thanks anyway.

  84. Dave R – the 2 letters = P and I = PI = Greek letter – used as shorthand for irrational constant number 3.141592653589……

  85. Very well AS.Its difficult not to get narky with certain comments from people whom I surmise to be self important to the extent of ,for want of a better word,bossy.I refer to comments made on Jan 11 at 12.05 pm.

  86. nn, agree, the last two LRs have been increasing in difficulty but enjoyable. Hope he doesn’t scare off the regulars or the editor because the rest of the Fairfax week is not as much fun. And it’s another double today as the Omega is a DA with a ‘theme’ and some of the quicks are cryptic.

  87. john , i am in total agreement with you, certain people in this room seem to think they own the room.
    These certain people think it is ok to blatantly give the answer to clues, and when i pull them up on it , i am branded as a troll, seems unfair to me but this room is cliquey.
    john , i like your comments , they seem fair to me

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