DA Confusion for the 23rd of August, 2013

Have this week’s confusions sorted out right here.

89 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 23rd of August, 2013

  1. Some of the early birds have made a start on last week’s Confusion thread. Some good misdirections and tricky defs this week.

  2. Off to a reasonable (for me) beginning. 2D obvious, 15D seemed so, first four ‘repaired cart’, but how to explain remainder??? 9A seems impossible, yet I’m fairly sure I have 1 & 2D correct. Only ten in so far.

  3. 15D the missing pole is from Winnie the Pooh.
    9A nautical vessel is def, synonym for ‘ hood’ as in baddie, with deletion

  4. Ta to Gayle & Simon H. I had put in ‘rival’ for 1D, seemed to fit clue. Must look for something else.

  5. A bit tougher this week, made worse by having to look up 11A/13D, of which I’d never heard.

    Arthur, 1D is verb meaning “equal” and a noun meaning “contest”

  6. Thanks, Barry, I saw that one earlier, after getting it wrong at first. Now down to three or four, but have filled in spaces with wild guesses only vaguely (it seems to me) related to clues given. 19 & 29A, plus 17D would finish it, I think. I had never heard of the game you referred to, wasn’t around when my kids were young, 40-50 years ago.

  7. Somewhat baffled by 19A. Probably have one or more words wrong, guessed at several, couldn’t fully understand clues (situation normal), but my choices for 19a appear to be narre, nerve, Norse or nurse, none of which make any sense, so, do I have one or more wrong letters there? If so, which? Help please.

  8. You’ve got some sauce, Arthur, asking that question! The answer is in the clue! ;)

  9. Been going well in recent weeks, but really stumped today. Have about half. Unsure of word play for many that I’ve written in. Think I have the first word of 11a, 13d (rough homophone for a nation), but can’t see how the rest of the clue works. Any help with 16a, 17d or 29a would be greatly appreciated.

  10. Dave, 16A definition is “They happen”. Two letter word for “papers” inside “signs of stress” – think languages

  11. Dave, 17D is an obscure word meaning “small child”. “Once indicates it’s an old word. Letters 1-5 are from “Delhi outsiders” – say them aloud. Last four means “fool”

  12. Dave, 29A definition is “brushing”. “Up closer” gives first letter. Remainder is an old boat (letters) surrounding the way that the passengers entered. Probably the best clue of the week!

  13. Sorry, Indy, if I have transgressed, to say the answer is inthe clue, doesn’t help at all, I’ve looked for a ‘lift-out’ but couldn’t see one. Will wait for tomorrow’s answers, I probably have something wrong, though I did find 17D, a word I’d never heard before. Enough, time for arvo-t.

  14. Arthur, you have already nominated the correct answer. It is hidden in the clue. Definition is “sauce” as in “cheek” – as in What a cheek he has.

  15. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! The old man IS going blind. No sooner sent last post till I looked again, there it was. Ah well, octogenarians deserve a little latitude.

  16. Don’t give up, Arthur. You are a lot closer to the answer to 19a than you realize. Look at the clue carefully, then at your list of possible answers.

    Barry, thanks for the hints. I’m getting closer.

  17. Got 10 A when I realized incense was not part of the def. 3 to go, assuming 8D correct

  18. As others have observed, a bit tougher this week. There are a few I think I have but not sure of all word play: 18a, the first part of 10a; 12a; and the last part of 5d. Also completely stumped on 6a and 8d

  19. I have 6a now. Funny she didn’t come up on first google of ‘little sparrow’. Also have an answer for 8d, but no idea how to get there.

  20. Twigged 5d and 18a. Would still like help understanding wordplay for 10a (first half – I get the incense part) and 12a

  21. 4D There are more feet in heaven and earth, Indy,
    than are dreamt of in your philosophy. 6D was a new snarl to me.
    12A If you have 13D and 8D, it’s not hard.

    Sandy. 18A : both words have straightforward, albeit unusual, synonyms in the clue. 10A Revolutionary like the Big Issue. 6A: the sparrow is a celeb who I remember well, unlike the one in 2D.

  22. Thanks Mike,
    As reported above I had twigged to 18a and 6a. I also have the def of 10a, and the last part of the word play (incense). But I don’t get how to get the first six letters from the wordplay. Nor do I get the wordplay for 12a.

  23. Sandy, 10A first three letters are a “revolutionary issue” – think a publication. Next three are a word for “pop” missing an article: think 10 cents a pop. You already have the final five.

  24. Help please, I am stuck with 17D, despite clues above. I have the connecting letters. Is the answer a word for which we might now use “rugrat”?

  25. Kate, the last part of your suggestion works (the rodent). But this is an archaic word I had never head of. If you first describe the Dehli outsiders (5 letters), then add a word for fool the last three letters of which are that rodent, you should have something to check in your dictionary.

  26. Well, I’ve filled in every square, but I don’t think I’ve ever tried a DA in which there were so many words I had never heard of. These include 11a/13d, 17d and 26d. 3d and 22d were tenuously within my passive vocabulary, though I would be hard put to define them.

    On the other hand, loved 6a, 16a (when the penny finally dropped), and 5d.

    There are still some to whose word play I haven’t twigged. These include 1a, 10a, 8d and 11a, 13d.

  27. While I was writing my last comment there were a couple of very helpful postings. Thanks.

  28. Dave, 1a first four letters are ‘established’, ‘judged finally’ is a letter in another word. The if you think about putting it in that word, it could be described as ‘ranked’, ie ‘put in _ _ _ _’.

  29. Indy – 6D – “Police head” = letter 1. “to snarl about” = letters 5,4,3,2. Defn = “smash”.
    Dave R – 1A – Synomym for “established” = letters 1,2,3,4. Now I take “ranked” as literally “in line”. So use “in” as container. Then “judge finally” and “line” = letters 5,6,7,8,9.
    10A – explained above. Try this. “revolutionary” indicates reverse. “issue” = 3 letter word for (shortened) synonym = letters 3,2,1. “a pop ignoring article” is a 4 letter word with 2nd letter missing to give letters 4,5,6. “incense” = synonym for last 5 letters. Defn = “innovative”.
    8D – 4 letter word for “stuff” = letters 4,5,6,7. “up” says to reverse so letters 7,6,5,4. “boring” = container. “talent” = 5 letter synonym for letters 1,2,3,8,9.
    11A – It is a kids game that eats marbles. The first 2 words are a homophone of a country. The third word is “in” = letters 1,2,3 and a 2 letter river.

  30. I think a more common (though still not very common) definition of 17D is an English coin.
    Can someone explain the revolutionary issue in 10A? I can only come up with a Welsh nobleman having this name.

  31. I’m surprised there has been no comment about the country mentioned twice in 11A/12D. Certainly I pronounce the country and the answer very differently. Having heard DA speak on the TV, I’d be surprised if he slurs the country this way.

    Reminds me of a put-down used when I was young: “The only two-syllable word that he knows is film”.

  32. Indy re 4D, think of what a blood donor may say when asked his blood type. The answer is probably more commonly used in adjectival form relating to poetry.

  33. Indy – 4D – hard to explain. Defn is the last word (in a literary sense I think). What blood type are you? The answer is not for me as I am O.

  34. Haha, I had that word as a guess earlier, but discarded it when I couldn’t get the blood donor connection!

  35. Barry, you bring up an old discussion re homophones. As I understand DAs approach to them, it is loose. The sound alike doesn’t have to be exact, but give you the idea. Some find this infuriating. I am ok with it.

  36. OK I need more help with 17D please. I have the whole puzzle solved but for letters 2 and 4 of this clue… ARGH!!! I have even resorted to googling letter combinations. Delhi outsiders, 5 letters… Is it something to do with the caste system?

  37. Kate – 17D – what are “Dehli outsiders” (as spoken)? They are “X” and “Y”.

  38. Whew, that’s a relief @Kate!
    Great surfaces this week, esp 29a and 23d. Had to use a FWSE to get 17d. But as I always say, you learn something every DA.

  39. Got it all out with quite a lot of help from word searchers. Some things I’ve never heard of, lots of wordplay I don’t have a clue on. Will come back after tea and read the above, looks as if it has generated quite a bit of discussion so far

  40. Hope this helps – “Help” Summary from contributors (thus far):
    Across:
    1A – Synonym for “established” = letters 1,2,3,4. Now I take “ranked” as literally “in line”. So use “in” as container. Then “judge finally” and “line” = letters 5,6,7,8,9. Defn = “small cake”.
    6A – The usual ‘little sparrow’ but her head isn’t lowered. First letter insertion. I’m not happy about the “Lebanese’. …. many more cultures than just Lebanese. Etymologically and historically the dish is worth a look on Wiki.
    9A – nautical vessel is def, synonym for ‘ hood’ as in baddie, with deletion
    10A – Try this. “Revolutionary” indicates reverse. “issue” = 3 letter word for (shortened) synonym = letters 3,2,1. “a pop ignoring article” is a 4 letter word with 2nd letter missing to give letters 4,5,6. “incense” = synonym for last 5 letters. Defn = “innovative”.
    11A (13D) – It is a kids game that eats marbles. The first 2 words are a homophone of a country. The third word is “in” = letters 1,2,3 and a 2 letter river.
    12A – is a double definition: think “golf” for the “drive” definition.
    15A, 16A, 18A, 19A, 20A, 22A, 25A, 27 A, – no explanation yet.
    28A – squat as in diddly, by as in maths, reversed.
    29A – definition is “brushing”. “Up closer” gives first letter. Remainder is an old boat (letters) surrounding the way that the passengers entered. Probably the best clue of the week!

    Down:
    1D – is verb meaning “equal” and a noun meaning “contest”
    2D, 3D – no explanation yet.
    4D – think of what a blood donor may say when asked his blood type. The answer is probably more commonly used in adjectival form relating to poetry.
    5D- no explanation yet.
    6D – “Police head” = letter 1. “to snarl about” = letters 5,4,3,2. Defn = “smash”.
    5D, 7D – no explanation yet.
    8D – 4 letter word for “stuff” = letters 4,5,6,7. “up” says to reverse so letters 7,6,5,4. “boring” = container. “talent” = 5 letter synonym for letters 1,2,3,8,9.
    13D – (as per 11A above).
    15D – Stumped – fooled or foxed (and) the missing pole is from Winnie the Pooh.
    17D – is an obscure word meaning “small child”. “Once indicates it’s an old word. Letters 1-5 are from “Delhi outsiders” – say them aloud. Last four means “fool”
    21D, 23D, 24D, 26D – no explanation yet.

  41. Back from tea, looked through all my answers and there are 14 of them for which at least part of the wordplay escapes me even though I have the answers. This must be a record for me!
    Time to look through all your posts in the hope of some enlightenment.

  42. Thanks Ray,
    Unfortunately I need 22a, 25a, 29a (can’t think of the old boat) 23d 24d and 26d
    Got this far with only a hint for 17d

  43. 6 That’s twice in almost as many weeks where DA has used Hollywood to equate to a US City. Equivalent to saying Kew = Melbourne.
    27 Base in the sense of bottom is appropriate for a down clue as is top, with front and back etc used for across clues.

  44. FHF: yep… I agree.

    AJ: 25A: Defn last word. “Behind” as an adjective “pinched” by “more distant”. [spoiler alert: Think Thomas Friedman.]

  45. AJ, 22A lamented audibly. 25A behind (in punctuality) within more distant. 29A the best clue today, the boat is very old. 23D think TV. 24D first word is def, taped refers to a homophone (of a synonym of 1D).

  46. Have read the above, down to the following wordplays that I don’t get and haven’t been mentioned
    18a, 19a, 25a, 21d, 26d.
    Despite the above I don’t fully understand 10a ( the pop without the article bit)
    6d how snarl gives the last 4 letter, I guess this is a word I’ve never heard of, so will try a dictionary next
    15d no idea who or what the pole from Winnie the Pooh is.

  47. Kate: 25A – I still don’t get the old boat…. :-(
    any help is much appreciated!

  48. nn: as per Barry | August 23, 2013 at 4:24 pm | – “pop” (think $10 per pop = per unit sold = —-) without “article”.
    (Thanks Barry for the explanation earlier)

  49. Thanks for the pop Marc. I’d read Barry’s earlier comment but it didn’t make sense at the time. I see it now, another one of DA’s rather cumbersome clues.
    I agree with the above that 29a is a great clue although it took me a LNG time to see it!
    The old boat is biblical if that helps

  50. nn/Kate: thanks!
    Yep I now agree that 29A is good – I needed the “boat” to find out how its “passengers joined”

  51. After much dictionary and thesaurus work I think I get the rest. Too many archaic/obscure words this week. Fortunately most were part of the wordplay so at least didn’t stop me getting the answers, but made it fairly difficult to work out what was going on.

  52. I think I’ve solved all one way or the other.
    Had a song fragment going through my head,
    Not sure whether or singular or plural. but it went something like …
    The animals came in two by two
    The elephant, lion and kangaroo
    (Possibly rhinoceros instead of elephant)
    Can anyone identify song? I’ll talk to Mr Google!

  53. Thanks Kate. I lamentably had the right word,but didn’t see the wordplay. I was using broadcast as an anagrind not a homophones indicator.
    Got the boat and then saw the whole thing was decorated. Only the dirty passengers joined that way. There were more clean ones. 23 d then fell into place. Only 2 letters off another word for a Delhi outsider.

  54. Thanks Marc. Your spoiler helped but only after I realised there was not a Lexus or an Olive Tree involved. Didn’t know of the other books.

  55. I agree with Barry (23/8 4:56) I don’t know which group DA mixes with but I have never heard the country alluded to in 11 13 spoken with less than 3 syllables. Is the animal in the third word meant to be derived from “in flower” (ie river). Really?
    29 the pasengers (plural) joined in pairs not in pair as suggested by the inner part of the answer.

  56. Gil, Is it the unicorn song?
    “There were green alligators, and long necked geese,
    some humpy-backed camels and some chimpanzees.
    Some cats and rats and animals da da da da da
    And don’t you forget the unicorn. (or something like that)

  57. @FHF in gives the first three letters of the animal the Italian river the last two. I think the full name of the animal means river horse, so there are a couple of interpretations I suppose. However I don’t think much of the synonym, DA has some very odd ways of pronouncing things at times

  58. John, Delhi outsiders are D and I, spoken aloud. These five letters are the first five in the answer, followed by a four-letter word for a fool, that is prat. So the answer is DANDIPRAT which is an old-fashioned term for a child.

  59. Barry, Can you explain the “Pole lost” in 15D? We can’t see Pooh’s “hexpotition ” in there at all. Had the clue said “ice lost direction”, that would fit. Dunno……

  60. Doug & Gwen, I didn’t understand the Pooh reference either. As best as I can parse it: “repaired cart” is an anagram giving ARCT. The poles of the earth are the top and bottom, so if you remove the south pole from ice, you get IC. Obviously stump = fox.

    I agree that “ice lost direction” would have been easier to explain. I wonder if DA ever reads this forum, if so he might light to enlighten us. Over to you, David!

  61. Thanx Barry. Yes, it would be good if David could “pop in” from time to time to explain the “unexplainable”. As I said we couldn’t see a North, or a South pole there at all, which could be removed. “David, are you there!?”

  62. “There’s a South Pole,” said Christopher Robin, “and I expect there’s an East Pole and a West Pole, though people don’t like talking about them.” Pooh was very excited when he heard this, and suggested that they should have an Expotition to discover the East Pole, but Christopher Robin had thought of something else to do with Kanga; so Pooh went out to discover the East Pole by himself. Whether he discovered it or not, I forget; but he was so tired when he got home that, in the very middle of his supper, after he had been eating for little more than half-an-hour, he fell fast asleep in his chair, and slept and slept and slept.”

    Doug and Gwyn, I thought this entertaining after your comments and having just arrived home after a tiring 3 day adventure to find this still being talked about….
    … . re the N or S pole in a down clue which is more accessible than a Winnie the Pooh reference……DA himself has said the setter has to stipulate the position for letter deletion. Another apology coming?

  63. NN Many thanks. Should have got it. I will blame the cold weather. And yes, its does mean river horse.

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