DA Confusion for the 10th of May, 2013

Confusions? Have them resolved below.

97 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 10th of May, 2013

  1. Tough one today. I have the motto, and a couple of the ten mottoed answers, but the motto has given me cross letters all over the grid that contradict my initial readings of the clues.

  2. Know me potatoes but no time to play. I thought organic calculus was a heelspur. And can only think of one 11 letter bushranger. Haven’t cracked the motto or the manipulation yet. Thought 6D would give it to me, with only the middle letter to get but no ..

  3. If I have 3D right I can account for the last 6 letters but not the first 5. Maybe I’m wrong. Don’t have enough cross letters yet to verify. Can’t get an in in NW. My 11A doesn’t help with the cross referenced 19A.

  4. 3D: If it’s the 11-letter bushranger I’m thinking of (and I only know a few) then my 14A is wrong, which would upset me as I’m quite confident about it.

  5. Hopelessser (!) than usual. Think I have 1A, nothing else. Hadn’t even noticed the note about mottoes. I think this one may make an early trip to the bin.

  6. Ta, well I’ll strike my 3D off. Apart from learning some new Italian words from the reverse dictionary for 14D I’m none the wiser. DA would throw us a curly one when I have to go to work early. Ci vediamo!

  7. 5D, 16D, 26D: I should say, /almost/ concurs with DA. DA has slipped an extra word in there that is not in the original.

  8. This may be a big help: the themed entires follow the wordplay, not the definition. That means most of them aren’t composed of real words (with two exceptions).

  9. 14A: This isn’t an Italian word you need a dictionary for, Gayle. If you went to Italy, you’d hear it a lot (a lot more than I would).

  10. Thanks, Ian. I was going to congratulate DA on avoiding another Little Creatures, but the two mottoed clues I have so far must be the only two that are still words.

  11. @arthur. yes…depending on what you thought was normal. 28A confirmed that for me.

  12. But the def’s not quite correct in 14A. Although close enough I s’pose for a cryptic. And the wordplay’s obvious, if you don’t get stuck on the def which I did.

  13. Ian, I’m not sure if I quite understood you. I now see three of the mottoed clues where the definition matches what goes in the grid.

  14. Ten mottoed clues, eight of which require nonsense to be entered in the grid. Only two (the one about the Arthur Upfield character, and the one relating to Elvis Costello’s missus) make sense in the grid

    By the way, do we think 13d is a Pippa Middleton reference (though it was a wedding, not a coronation)?

  15. Thank goodness! 8D with Ian’s confirmation is the key! Can go to work now. Good fun.

  16. You were right, Ian. I had foolishly entered real words into the grid, only to find that it ruined the cross letters.
    Suddenly this is a lot less fun.

  17. Not progressing at all. Have only 5, 21, 22D, 14, 20, 25, 26 A. Thought I had 1A earlier, now uncertain. Is Nitrogen involved there? If 21A is an anagram, my wordfinder can’t solve it, nor can it give me a suitable word for 15D. Frustrating.

  18. All finished, but I wish to register a complaint: all the altered clues should have left real words, as 8D and 11A did. The resulting answers don’t make a pretty sight, especially in those clues where the motto gives more than one change.

    3D: bushranger gives part of answer, followed by an anagram. The result is a doubly mottoed synonym of ‘new union member’.

  19. 1a just a double definition, 15d a mottods word, so gibberish in the grid. 15d: I still call _ home

  20. Ian, I am surrendering, cannot see any way ahead. Disappointed, but it seems hopeless. If you were suggesting Oz in that 15D clue, I have a word starting with G and ending with L, so impossible. Farewell, will look again next week.

  21. I have to agree with Jack: the result should have been real words.

    I also think that the motto is the wrong way round, in that it has also been subject to itself.

    All done, but not as much fun as usual. I don’t blame Arthur for giving up. Now onward to The Times in the Australian.

  22. Ian, my answers so far aren’t nonsense, eg 2D, 9A or 8D, or are you saying I should be filling the nonsense answers in the grid? Is that why it’s so hard? Many thanks

  23. Goodness. This did my head in. I don’t like putting non-words in the grid. All done but not sure about 13D (a word for fascinating containing movie finale?) Have 18D (due to motto) but don’t see the wordplay. Liked 23A.

  24. Barb&Fran, 2D and 9A aren’t words. You’ve probably made the mistake I did, which is to assume you apply the motto to the wordplay, and write the definition in the grid. Unfortunately, to make the grid work, you need to apply the motto to the definition, and write the wordplay in the grid.
    8D works either way, as it’s a double definition.

  25. 13D: It’s a word for fascinating that’s been mottoed. The word play is coronation containing the end of lassie.
    18D: One of them is contained in “fear a mistake”.

  26. Jack: I agree.
    The only “correct” (un-played) word I found matching the theme is in 8D. Rest of themed clues are entered into grid with wordplay.

  27. Marc, 8D is a double definition. One of the definitions has been played, the other hasn’t. So it fits with the others.

  28. Dear Mr Astle – I must question your answer to 16 Down in today’s (10th May 2013) Quick
    Crossword No. 12005. A check of my Gardening Australia confirms what I have always believed to be correct – Australian Bottlebrushes or Callistemons are members of the genus Myrtaceae.
    Grevilleas are of the protea genus Proteaceae.

  29. Hmmm, 1d “large jugs” inDeeD Mr Astill.
    A lot of us wish to set Mr Stoneall onto you!
    Almost home but have hated having to change all my “wrong” answers.
    Only 4 & 22 d & 27 ac left to go … further ‘corrections” notwithstanding!!!

  30. Gil, my favourite clue was 1D (when I finally worked it out).
    Like others, I have not enjoyed using non-words.
    It was only after reading the first few comments here that I realised I was meant to.
    Have some sort of answer to all but 12A.

  31. Ann – 12A – “Trial” = defn to give answer which has to be motto’d. Wordplay to build the non word is “taps” = letters 1,2 “on Gene” = letters 3,4,5,6,7,8 “Wilder” = anagrind “movie finale” = letter 9.

  32. 4D: mottoed, I think.
    22D: a word for ancient containing a turn.
    27A: an anagram of the first three words.

  33. One dall & I’m one dall in!
    Today’s goned me somewhat
    but overone it was one very clever!
    At least it wasn’t poneid like last week’s
    but it seemed many made goneant efforts
    before coneing it quits.
    Congratulations to everyall who rose to the chonenge
    and triumphed: nice all!

  34. Rupert – thanks for wordplay on 18D.
    For 24D / 7D wordplay is “white” = letters 1,3,4,5. “drug inside” = letter 2.”reversing hereditary factor” = letters 6,7,8. “painter discovered” = letters 9,10,11,12,13,14. That help?

  35. Although some of the non-words are annoying, I managed to solve this totoney before coming here for assistance. However, the wordplay for 6D (non-themed) escapes me.

  36. Jack, re 6 d. I thought the “gunwales” that were “lowered” (=removed) from the “ship” were the letters “F” & “Y” though I wouldn’t call that particular vessel a “ship”, myself.

  37. Jack – sorry I can’t help on 6D. This and 17A are the last 2 I am unsure of wordplay,

  38. Thanks Gil. I agree that this is hardly a ship, but the answer makes sense.

    Ray, 17 A is one of the logical ones.

  39. Ann, did you get 12 ac? Find a word that means trial – Such as the way we DA trippers view a DA crossword – then motto it!

  40. Ray, 17 ac for “obsolete” you could also use “poetic”: it’s a conversion instruction
    that when applied to a couple of other words in the clue will give you letters 1-3
    “paperwork” gives 4-7. Ho capito?

    Now I think about it I didn’t understand the wordplay for 14ac: “initial test depleted”.

  41. Gil
    14A: “Initial” like John Hancock; followed by a four etter test less its last letter.

  42. As soon as I read Ray’s hint at 4:51 I realised what 12A had to be and that 4D was much more obvious than I had thought, thanks Gil. I loved your clever poem.

  43. Thanks to all of you for the hints and help, I’ve managed to complete it, but would have very much struggled on my own! A real beast, today! By contrast, the ‘excellent’ score in the Target seemed unusually achievable…

  44. Struggled for most (if not one) of the workDAy on this allrous puzzle.

    15D is a devilish use of calculus… (and “gonosomal” was my original guess to’ calculus on organics’ (i.e. genes), but ultimately I was wrong). Time to listen to the Rolling Stalls…

  45. even after reading all thr above i have not improved on my original two answers and have absolutely no idea what is going on. if lots of answers aren’t words it explains why i can’t fit anything to the few cross letters i have. think i will join Arthur and shred this one. i don’t even know where to find the motto

  46. thanks to Gil i now have the motto although I’ve no idea how you can get it from the clue. not enjoying this at one

  47. got a couple more out but finding it too tedious to be bothered with. can’t work out the clues in most of them and the presence of too many none words makes them impossible to take a guess from the cross letters.

  48. Ironically I got the motto almost immediately (could only think of one phrase that had 7 consecutive 3 letter words).
    But it hasn’t helped me – I still don’t understand what it means you have to do and have barely got anything else at all. Like nn even the few I think I have an answer for I can’t work out the wordplay. And if, as people are saying above, some of the answers in the grid are just nonsense then I am even more lost.
    Seems like this is just going to be a disappointing waste of time this week – shame.

  49. Julian, you get a logical (or sensible) answer that may not fit cross letters but if the singular or plural word from the motto is buried in your answer, swap it for the other. This will give you an answer that may not be a valid word but should fit your cross letters.
    4, 9, 11, 12 across &
    2, 3, 8, 13, 15, 24/7 down
    are the clues requiring modification of the answer.
    Try applying the motto to my comment at 4:58 to see what’s going on!

  50. Jack and Gil – re 6D; you may be thinking too narrowly about ferries as the 30,000+ tonne ferries that go from the UK to Europe are most definitely ships.

  51. Managed to get the d–n thing finished before today’s paper with the answers was delivered. Could anyone explain how 1D works? “Is a coach” is plain but how does the rest of the clue work? Don’t get 23A either. This happens to me frequently with DA – get the answers but can’t see how they work.

  52. Victor
    1D, defn is last two words, “is a coach” and last letter of “rage” in large bra size.
    23A, defn first word. Apply the answer to the fourth word to leave a three lettered fifth word.

  53. Victor – see Gil | May 10, 2013 at 4:31 pm | – “Is a coach” gives letters 2,3,4,5,6,7. “close to rage” gives letter 8. And as Gil describes “breaking large jugs” gives letters 1,9.
    23A – Defn = 1st word. Now the question is, how do you turn the word “marble” into a 3 letter word for “stain”? You have to remove 3 letters – so there is “xx yyy”

  54. Thanks, DeRiddeller and Ray – now I get them!
    Returning the favour – in 25A “I ate” gives the first 4 letters with the word for “ate” reversed; “hot peeled” gives the last letter, and the definition is “potato spot”, a state famous for its spud production.

  55. DeRiddler – 25A – defn last 2 words. “I” = letter 1. “ate around” gives letter 4,3,2 (and is a 3 letter word for “ate”). “hot peeled” = letter 5. Help? Well known place for potatoes.

  56. it was a clever idea but too much for my tired brain on a friday night. no time this weekend so have abandoned it.

  57. I have 11 answers that obey the motto, including the motto itself. I am not sure about 11a though, does it obey the motto or not? Thanks

  58. David S – yes 11A obeys motto. It was the Arthur Upfield character reference Ian @ 8.44 made that helped me.

  59. Gave up with 7 to get – including 4 of the motto ones.
    It helped a little bit knowing which clues were motto ones (thanks Gil above) – but even then I just found this too obscure to be enjoyable. To me part of solving crosswords is having a few letters in place so you can attack from 3 angles – the definition, the wordplay, and words that fit with letters you already have. By having gibberish at random places in the grid, you can’t do that 3rd element (which is clearly one I use a lot, given what a nightmare I found this one to be).

    I also agree with a poster on the ACC forum who said the note wasn’t clear enough in terms of what the motto affected – definitions, wordplays, or the grid.

    Even having now looked at the answers I still don’t get some of them.
    11a? Last word is definition? How do the other 2 words clue the motto’d wordplay?
    19a? First word is definition presumably. How does the rest work?

    On the positive side, I did think 1D was clever and it was quite impressive to get such a long hidden word for 21a.

    Hoping for something more up my oneey next week.

  60. Julian – 11A – I read last 2 words as defn (Arthur Upfield character as reference above by Ian) which would give “-one-“. So then motto that to get “-all-” which fits with “Bloody” – the double defn.
    19A – yes – defn = 1st word. Another “descriptive” word like “bloody” or “bally” is “dang”. And a type of “light” is LED

  61. Ok I had counted 5/16/26d as also being affected by the motto, but I don’t know the phrase well enough to know whether it is back to front or not

  62. I don’t understand why there was so much complaint over this. In all 10 cases, the wordplay gives the answer to go into the grid. Changing the “ones” to “alls” and vice-versa then leads to the words defined in the clues.

  63. Thanks Ray. Wasn’t familiar with either of those words like bloody which was my problem. Should definitely have got the LED bit though – duh!

  64. @Jack, mine wasn’t a complaint, I just found it too difficult as, like Julian, I appear to get quite a few answers from looking at possible words that fit the cross letters and then seeing if I can fit them to the def and/or wordplay. I found much of the wordplay and definitions too difficult this week too, having only worked out a couple of answers from the non mottoed clues before coming here for help. Even after reading through it all and looking at the answers in today’s paper there are still a number of things I don’t get. As I said above, it was a clever idea, but the whole thing proved too hard for me. It took me a long time and a lot of help from here to even work out which answer was the motto. Still not sure how it fits the clue…

  65. nn – I thought the same about the motto clue until I checked the dictionary to find “saw” is a saying, proverb or maxim. Always learning with DA.

  66. I loved it. I had all of 3 answers done in an hour but, one by one, answers popped up. The theme was not gotten until half way and it was easier, but somehow harder, to complete after that. Too many good clues to list!

  67. nn – 18D – as per Rupert “FeAR A MIStake” “restricts one of them” gives the implied answer here.
    Then 5D/16D/26D feeds of that to give the motto – where “saw” has the meaning “motto”. Then this motto applies to 10 other clues.

  68. I finished the crossword with a lot of help from this site and a lot of persistence. Overone feeling from me was that it was too choneenging. As you can see, I tried to get into the spirit, but I can’t say I ever reoney got there.

  69. I also completed with a lot of Trippers help. Thanks. But I fear DA came awfully close to breaking his own rule. In ‘Puzzled’ he says crosswords need to be solvable or they lose their entertainment value. It seems this one did for some.
    For me, I am still none the wiser on the wordplay for 4a. I know the mottoed answer meaning chatter, but not the way to get it. I also don’t get what ‘tender’ has to do with 8d. The word would mean crown in Copenhagen. And lastly, I don’t get the wordplay for 4d. Any help in these final understandings would be appreciated.

  70. Sandy – 4A – word play “Virologist” is letters 1,7,8,9 (polio I think). “impressionist” is letters 2,3,4,5,6.
    8D – “tender” as is “legal tender” – it is Denmark’s currency.
    4D – wordplay – “Resigned” = defn. “to” = fodder. “occupy” = container. So “to” goes into a 3 letter word for “that’s how it reads”.

  71. A couple of good, old-fashioned cryptic crosswords and then another self-indulgent wank. Very disappointing.

  72. Kate, I agree re quick – grevillea is not a bottle brush.

    I got one clue in the cryptic myself by Saturday night. I snuck a peek at the Saturday answers and saw The boxer one that didn’t look like a real word. I googled that and found someone very frustrated with this DA. Spoiler alert – this link has the motto and answers.
    http://youthinkyourebetterthanmecrossword.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/friday-10513/
    I’ve got a few more , but finding it frustrating to do the motto to undefined words

  73. The choneenge for DA must be to provide a weekly offering that’s also all for hardened solvers. Unfortunately this means frustration to others, but then you can’t please everyall. I vote this one of the best ever!

  74. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree spijk. My favourite DAs are elegant. This week’s was anything but, which is a shame because there were some great clues. I thought 28A was nice. If more of the themed clues had been like 8D, I’d agree with you.

  75. I apologise for that link I posted – I didn’t start reading his answers so I didn’t know how quickly his frustration degenerated into abused.
    I still have lots to go and will stick with it, but I don’t find it an elegant puzzle. It is a fun experiment though.

  76. Deplorable. Fun. Indulgent wankery. Gold.

    Just a few responses to my unorthodox themer on Friday. Going by the Trippers site, the polarising element seems the issue of non-words. Fair enough – they are a deviation from the norm, and I need to heed the majority’s misgivings.

    But just to be clear where the majority stands, I’d appreciate if you can find the time to vote on a poll across the road at http://www.davidastle.com – and add any other responses to the non-word business in the Salon 19 forum. Thanks a lot, and enjoy your next grapple.

  77. I think my reaction to the non-words is coloured by my lack of success doing the crossword.

    I just found it too hard, so I’m more likely to whinge.

  78. Just solved 3d at long last- you have to keep in mind that the union is not a business union, it’s a romantic union. Then motto it (at both ends) to fit in with the cross letters.

    Still have gaps in 24/7, and 14a…Perseverance!

  79. Only got around to this today (Monday ) it did my head in. The first DA to thoroughly defeat me. I too prefer real words in the grid.

  80. Finally finished but only by cheating on the answers for some. Three levels of substitution got too hard.

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