DA Confusion for the 7/8th of December, 2012

Confusion more than likely abounds in this week’s thematic DA.

Air your confusion and have it resolved here.

93 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 7/8th of December, 2012

  1. A toughie, I think. The top half is almost all done, and the theme cracked, thanks to 4D, but the bottom half is still depressingly pristine.

  2. Agree is tough. I have most of the West but little of the East. And wordplay on some still not clear.

  3. Morning all – yes a tough one. Just managed to get the last one out. Getting the C makes it easier but still can’t work out the wordplay on some eg 21D, 28D and 16A. Interestingly I finished the bottom half first with my first C being 19A

  4. Yes, a ripper. I think we’ve goaded DA with our recent ‘too easy’ feedback.
    Setter’s revenge. I too have the theme but a long way to go. Love it!

  5. Peter – I do not have 16A or 21 D (as I too cannot confirm wordplay), but for 28D, I interpret as a reversed (“up”), truncated (“fairly”) 5 letter word for “speak” to give “famous last words”.

  6. 21D – 4 letter word for “old”, reversed (“review”), 1st letter missing (“article omitted”). Then 4 letter word for “source”.

  7. 10A: Anagram of Liberal’s minus b (bout)
    14D: Fisherman’s typical story gives first three letters, “on” gives the rest.

    16A I don’t know that one either.

  8. 19D: According to Google, the C’s name is singular.
    8D: Is “vengeful” a synonym for “avenging”? They seem different to me.
    5A: Are we talking about someone who recently married a Formula 1 proprietor? This wordplay seems a bit weak.

    17A, 20D, 30A were my favourites this week. Good puzzle, though could have done with a few fewer bushrangers!

  9. Thanks Rupert. For 14D, I have not seen “on” used like this even tough I can get there.

  10. 16A – finally (think) I’ve got it. “Police chief” as in band! Then the other bit.

  11. I’m slowly making my way through this, but I don’t understand the wordplay for some parts of 5A, 8D, 23A, 29A. I’m new to this cryptic business and trying to learn the rules! Any tips would be much appreciated. Thanks!

  12. It was a tough one. The theme didn’t come easy. I only saw two bushrangers though Rupert. The others ranging from sport to piracy to children’s entertainment made things interesting.
    Not sure about 25a: is it a C from a sport popular with the Victorians? If so I think it has a ‘g’ missing.
    And I think I have an answer for 23a, but I haven’t ‘got’ it.

  13. Brandon – 5A is not normal (in my view) as defn is vague. May come back to that later as I think confusing as am explanation. See Rupert at 10:59 above.
    8D – “Idle chap” is a person (4 letters). Then this goes inside (“occupies”) a 3 letter acronym for a “doctors” to give one of the “C” themes. Rupert has rightly raised the topic of “vengeful” as above
    23A – this is a clue I have seem before. Defn is first word. And the cryptic biut is that other than eunuchs there are – — in a harem.
    29A – 4 letter “Greek supremo” with a cockney way (Google “Bow Bells”) of saying “ring” inside (“pierced”) to give the answer for being “burning” about something.

    Hope I have right. Hope it helps.

  14. 29A – a type of ring said with an East End accent within a Greek supremo = burning
    5A – two expressions for “superb” , one reversed, plus the chemical abbrev for sodium = Brazilian girl
    8D – first name of person with Idle as a surname within an association of doctors = vengeful C
    23A – a harem is a group of what? drop a letter to make a sign. Interesting that DA didn’t use the theme to clue this one. Reverse a C.

    Any help on 1A or 11A would be appreciated. I’m dubiouse on my 1D. The C that I have used has two eyes.

  15. 25A: Not a sport, but an historical C of the sea-going variety
    23A: Rules for the harem – think gender and how many are allowed inside.

    Brandon, part of the fun of DA is that he plays a bit loose with the rules. But we’ll try to help anyway!
    5A: Two variations on superb and the chemical symbol for sodium. (I think. If so it’s a bit weak).
    8D: Idle as in Monty Python, and doctors as in an organisation representing doctors.
    29A: The C is from a beloved children’s play. An old word for drink goes outside.

  16. Looks like I need some more help on 25a then. Corrected 23a from those clues though. So thanks.

  17. Ah the penny drops with 25a. I had ousted as an indicator, not a descriptor for the C

  18. Doing the crossword on the SMH app – not ideal – especially since, once again, they’ve left out any header text about the theme!

  19. Don’t worry – there is no header text today. Just lots of “C”s in the clues!

    I have the theme (even though after getting 4d I initially thought they were all from that game!) but am struggling bottom left. 19a, 19d, 31a? I still can’t get 29a either despite plenty of hints for it above. And a few missing in the top left also (1d, 9a)
    Just got 17a and I agree with Rupert – a clever clue.

  20. Basically everything in the top left is plaguing me at the moment, Julian! Solidarity, brother! I also don’t understand the wordplay for 22D (but that may be because I haven’t solved 3D yet, haha) or 18D. Help, help!

    19A – combine two words for ‘fight’; definition is ‘raffish C’
    19D – tin element in front of a word for ‘drains’; definition is ‘commercial C’s’ (think TV circa late 80s)
    31A – “The C is from a beloved children’s play. An old word for drink goes outside.” (from Rupert at 5:33pm, above)

    P.S. Thanks for the help, Ray, Pat, and Rupert!

  21. @Sandy, you’re right. Sorry adding to the already plentiful confusion.

    29A: a four letter word for a glowing ring, truncated as one would if one were born within earshot of Bow Bells, inside a four letter head of the Greek pantheon. Definition is the first word.

    1D: A children’s TV show from the 1970s. The boxer is the four legged type.
    9A: Shoot (often in cold blood) is the definition. Spooner has finished the dress, but it could also be a brown dress, of the sort worn to balls.
    3D: First word is the definition. Remove the points from “slow” and grant permission.
    18D: The thinker is the sort we all have, that DA drives us out of. The answer is a component of proteins.

  22. Thanks Rupert. Almost there now. Kept wanting to put Curious in for 29a (Burning curiosity) but it didn’t fit the wordplay (didn’t know the starting letter as I didn’t know 19d). Can’t believe I hadn’t got 1d – I loved that show as a little kid!
    I have got 30a but how does the wordplay work?
    The only one I’m now missing is 11a which is doubly silly since I have 2 of the 4 letters!

  23. 11am ‘obsessive C lost it’ is the meaning. ‘A rut’ is the word play, ‘rut being a shortening of another word for regular activity. There was a whale involved

  24. Ah – nice! Thanks. Not sure I’ve seen that exact clue mechanism before. Only seen ones where the last letter of a word moves to the front, or where one letter is changed but stays in the same position.
    And I’ve got 11a now too – all finished – yay!!

  25. Sandy – this is probably just me being pedantic but for 11a, isn’t the definition “obsessive C” and the wordplay is a rut that has lost “it”?

  26. There we were hunkered down over DA and the Friday night sparkling, and an ad related to 19d came on the TV

  27. Yep, today is definitely a toughie. After a long time staring at it, and scouring these hints here I have only a 25% spattering of clues spread over all quadrants of the grid. Thankfully, I got the theme after your lovely hints, but I have much work to do at even making sense of some of your clues.

  28. My usual solve time is 1-2 days (or more) rather than the 1-2 hours of some of you. And that is with assistance from this site. However, within that context, this week seemed easier than usual to me. Makes up for all those times other people say “too easy” and I keep struggling for days.

    Agree that 19d being pluralised and 1d not being one-eyed are not ideal. And I wouldn’t have got 5a without help. Pretty weird keeping up with gossip columns via DA crosswords…

    With 16a, for the word play I am reading it as (1.1., 5). Does that match others’ ideas? It is similar to reading 23a as (1, 3), though in 23a the 1 needs to be read as a number.

  29. Deryn, the two letter word in 16a is a street slang shortening of a five letter word.
    I don’t think 19d is pluralised. It is just missing an apostrophe – the clue is “Commercial C’s”, not “Commercial C”.

  30. In spite of hints, we’re still stuck on 14D, 21D, 28D and 30A. Any more hints, please?
    Finished the rest fairly quickly.

  31. Victor – 14D – see Rupert at 10:53am yesterday.
    28D – See Ray at 9:29am yesterday.
    30A – See Sandy 7:46pm yesterday.

  32. Finished at last – without hints, too! (Copy from The Age, delivered this morning).

  33. Not going well, as usual. Brazilian girl is a mystery, thought Ipanema, but thats no use. No idea on theme, so only have about 6 solved. May have to leave till tomorrow, its going to be a scorcher here.

  34. Another great DA. Thanks Ray for the tips on 21D, which was the final piece for me. I didn’t know about that piece of Australian history. Thanks also for solving the mystery of the wordplay in 16A.

  35. Had to resort to the word finder for 21A then couldn’t understand why it took me so long! That gave me 21D which was last in. Agree that it was tougher than they’ve been for a while. But wasn’t there a Brute after 28D? Second last words I think…

  36. Arthur, I didn’t know her name in 5A (though I had heard of her husband and their recent wedding). The wordplay isn’t much help, either. My advice is move on, and when you get stuck, Google “formula one marriage”.

  37. Thanks, Rupert, had heard of neither the happening nor the lady involved. With all due respect, I suspect money is vastly more attractive than Bernie. But now, given first letter of 5D, my wordfinder can’t produce a word, given the 17A I have. I had an R in seventh place, seemed to fit clue perfectly, but cannot find a word for 5D. Is it a normal word?

  38. Re 5d I now think it might be an anagram from last two words but who this ticklish C might be has me tossed. May be someone known to a very much younger story book generation Arthur than ours. Can someone tell me if I’m on the right track, please?

  39. I tried the anagram idea also, Judy, but nothing comes up, will try changing my first leter in 17A, see what that brings.

  40. No, doesn’t work, if I change that letter, the ‘little fighting over’ disappears.

  41. No progress, no idea of theme, no idea of 5D, had thunderbolt for 32A, but can’t see anything larcenous there. So, no more, just a waste of time.

  42. Re 5d: Judy and ArthurC you both have the right idea about the word play. The answer can be read as one word as a C (well known to children these days) and as two words, the second of which you might expect a C to carry whether for ornament or use. It was 5d that gave me the theme.
    @Arthur C. Once you know what C stands for you will see that C Thunderbolt was larcenous – one of the australian Cs that Rupert complained about. But maybe that is NSW specific history. Googling Thunderbolt NSW will help if you want.

  43. Found this one much easier than last week’s (which I gave up on). Got the theme early which helped.
    Arthur you are correct with 32A, he is one of the bushrangers. If you google him it should tell you what the C refers to in the theme.
    Judy 5d is a Wiggle character. If you haven’t had young kids in the last 20 years you’ve probably never heard of him. The first 7 letters are the ticklish bit (also very light). This is a word of seven letters ending in R as Arthur had surmised. The second part of it is also a word of 5 letters and is a weapon. You are also correct in it being an anagram.
    I’d never heard of the Brazilian girl, but worked it out from the wordplay and several cross letters (fortunately this wordplay had all the pieces in it rather than one of those annoying clues which has a bit of an unkown word inside a bit of another unknown word with a letter or two thrown in for good measure). I had initially put in Ipanema too before getting some other cross letters. I haven’t bothered to google who she is, if she has any connection with F1 racing I’m not the least bit interested.

  44. Well, well, well. So DA watches kids shows. Have never (shame on me) watched the Wiggles!
    Now have 5D, and confirmation that my 32A was right, so now a faint inkling what the C may be. Will pursue further. Thanks to nn and Deryn.

  45. Eight to go, but… Would like help with 1A since NW corner is all I have to do.

  46. I worked out the theme fairly early, but am stuck on many of the non-themed clues. What is more, I seem to be unfamiliar with a few of the Cs. Would love some help with 1a, 1d, 16a, 21a or 21d. After a few relatively easy ones, DA has my measure this week.

  47. No sooner had I posted the above comment than I got 1a (thanks to Rupert), 21a and 21d. This gave me 22d, but I don’t get the word play for the last three letters. 16a remains a mystery.

  48. Hi all. Long time reader, first time poster…
    I found today hard for a thematic DA, but generally find DA thematics easier than DA non-thematics.
    Had first 3 letters of 17A as “big” initially which sent me in wrong direction.
    And couldn’t figure out wordplay for 16A until explained above (I had 1,2,7 as the Police chief from Dukes of Hazzard!).
    Having said that, have to ask advice for 2 clues which don’t seem mentioned above (by which I imply they’re easy ones for all but me… :
    26A, 12A?
    And 22D – I think I have answer (defn softer, first 4 letters “fellow”, but don’t get last 3 letters, even with the cross-ref.)
    Any help appreciated.

  49. 22D: The last three letters are a four letter word for 3D, with one of the middle letters removed (half-hearted). It’s the sort of 3D accompanied by a wolf whistle.
    16A: Definition is the last two words. Police chief refers to the British band, and gives the last five letters. The first two letters are a somewhat derogatory term for someone who works for an escort agency.
    26A/12A: The answer was a bushranger. It’s also a term for holding a second job at night, often incongruous with your first job.

  50. That was an ‘ard one. I was trying word play with Bow Bells. So many ways of indicating dropping the h. And I fell for the bout. I too loved the show in 1d but had completely forgotten about it.
    Thanks DA Trippers for the assistance.

  51. Thanks Rupert. Now have 1A. About six to go. For 1D have put in your earlier clue about the canine, looks like a character I don’t know, as I only have first three letters.

  52. Also, fifth letter of 2D? If one takes the letters from the lift-out in the clue, this becomes an E, but I feel should be an A. ? Any thoughts? Is 11A an anagram of a rut? Doesn’t convey any name to me.

  53. 5a – 3 letter word for superb. It’s shortened from a longer word – Oprah was famous for saying it. And chemical element for sodium. I follow F1. Lol.

  54. We’re stuck on 21D. We have D _ _ _ T _ T. Originally thought it was “aged” without the “G” ( for omitted source of gate), backwards, but afraid it didn’t do anything for us with regards to a “C”. Also no idea on 25A ( _ L _ _ _ ) for another “C”
    For 28D we have _ P / _ U , also no idea, but really enjoyed the challenge of this one.

  55. @Doug & Gwyn: 21D you are correct about “aged” without the”G”, but the fifth letter is not “T”; you must have 30A wrong.
    25A “Interminable” is often a signpost for deletion of the last letter(s). Try removing the last letter from a 6-letter word that can mean “plague”.
    28D neither your “P” nor “U” is correct. What do you have for 32A/6D?

  56. Sorry, folks, but clues given above for 11A I can’t decipher, 1D I have, I think, first three. No 16A, unsure of 14D. Probably best to let it go, people have tried to help, but I couldn’t fathom what they posted. Thanks all.

  57. @Arthur C: 11A, surely, with Sandy’s hint above: “There was a whale involved.” …?
    16A see Rupert at 4:33am yesterday.
    14D defn is last word. First 3 letters are what a fisherman’s tale is, traditionally.

  58. Thank you JC. I had heard of thgis character, never read the book nor saw the film, if there was one. Was held up on 16A, because I was thinking amusing, rather that the actual answer. All finisged now, but not clear on the strand in 14D. Otherwise, all OK.

  59. Thanxs JC, and Rupert. Instead of a word relating to eyes, we had a word relating to current. The clue can be read either way.
    Well! that small change made big difference!

  60. @Arthur C: There have been three films. The only one I’ve seen is the 1956 one directed by John Huston, with Gregory Pack doing a very good job of playing 11A. It is only less boring than the book because watching it is much quicker than reading it. One website devoted to boring books rates it second only toPilgrim’s Progress.
    14D think of something like a hair or a thread.

  61. I. I tried reading the book, only got a few chapters in. People had more time back then.

  62. Horrified to discover I had two wrong, too embarrassing for words. Plagu instead of Bligh, liers instead of fibre @ 14D. Idiot!

  63. Just finished, because I was busy on the weekend.
    I have a few quibbles.
    Not only is 19D singular, (as stated above), but now they have dropped the title/rank all together. (I suppose I could pass it as an historical reference)
    1D definitely has two eyes. Cut Throat Jake has the eye patch.
    The C in 26A/12A used the four letter spelling of 12A not the five. (despite being an Australian in the 1800s)

  64. Hi, I have never seen this website before but I threw out my saturday paper by accident before I started the friday crossword and was completely stuck and now thanks to all these hints have done the whole thing! Feel almost as pleased as I would if I had done it with my own brain!

  65. Postscript (almost a week late) on Felonious C (26A): for a long time I had Starlight, from Boldrewood’s Robbery Under Arms (Rubbery Underarms?), with a star post (star picket) used in fencing, and thinking of lightpost for lamppost. In any case, Starlight would have been a good addition to the menagerie of Cs (perhaps not the best letter in the Aussie vernacular for a theme?).

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