DA Confusion for the 3rd/4th of August, 2012

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104 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 3rd/4th of August, 2012

  1. Got 5D (23D/6A was the key, and I got it from 4 of the cross letters, rather than the wordplay). Still have 2 of the 5Ds to work out. It’s not something I’m particularly knowledgeable about.

    15A appears to be an indirect anagram. Anyone got another way of parsing it?

    17D and 16D are my favourites so far.

  2. I thought 15a was (SPOILER ALERT) a reverse hidden clue. The numbering in the app (not sure about the paper version) was (6), but should be (3, 3).

    Thought the cling of 21d, 11a was clumsy

  3. Thanks, Ian. I’d looked at the reverse container option and rejected it when I was considering another possible answer for 15A.

    21D/11A would have been better with “from” instead of “for”, but that would have made the surface somewhat disturbing.

  4. Seems a tough one today. I solved 24D from the wordplay, but then had to Google it to check that it was a real word. Who makes up these appalling neologisms??

  5. All done, with 18D the last in.

    Still missing the wordplay for 22A, 6D, 23D/6A and 14A.

    What’s the New Age connection with 1D? It doesn’t look that special – it’s not even the closest point to NZ ;) That appears to be on the border between ACT and Victoria, presumably because they both wanted to claim it.

  6. Ahhh. Thanks Mr Rupert.
    Methinks the New Age Mecca is the aforementioned Bay – where Hoges held court.

  7. 22a I think is the size of the wooden beams.
    6d: a month and a reversed bread
    23/6: a word for tie, then an initial letter in a word for shades
    14a: there is no 14 a

  8. Finished now – not so bad once I solved 5D.
    I don’t like the clueing of 7D – in seconds is weak and I think that form of clueing is suspect anyway. But then I don’t have to set them, I only try to solve them!

  9. Ian’s interpretation of 22A is interesting. I saw it as a rather complicated wordplay: hard to explain without giving the game away, but here goes:
    Letters 4,5,6 are most of a computer term for a group of bits; letters 2,3 and 8 mean floor (in the sense of astonish) and letters 1 an 9 are clued by into.

  10. Getting 5D was a relief. I toyed with the idea of SKY-LAB before I realised that it wasn’t that kind of ‘space’.

  11. 27A was fun. Rotten cheese somehow collects in mine.

    Some more German in 7D.

    WAs fooled by punctuation in 13A – that last comma took me off track. I keep getting deceived even though I know it’s a consistent trick.

    Only got the wordplay of 29A after I guessed the answer.

    New words for me were 4D, 19A and 24D.

  12. The answer in 22A is strictly not correct according to a more thorough examination of Genesis chapters 6 through 9. However, popular culture has totally skewed that story anyway.

    The def in 18D involved clever misdirection. I pencilled in INSOMNIA briefly before realising my error.

    For once I think I get all of the wordplay, and have no questions for other trippers.

  13. Actually, re wordplay, I’ve just seen that I might’ve misunderstood 22A due to my ignorance of floor fittings. I like RogerD’s explanation above. That fits with devious DA’s way of doing things.

  14. I am there (once I twigged to 5d by way of guessing 25d/31a/12a and 23d/6a), except for 2d, 10a and 27a. Despite having all the cross letters for those three, I am still stumped. Any hints?

  15. It’s a long time since I had anything to do with carpentry (around 67 years), but I question DA’s joist sizes. In Imperial, bearers were mostly 4 x 4, joists 3 x 2? Any carpenters out there?
    As usual, I am disappointed at clues that depend on others being solved. Have no idea of 5D, in fact I’ve only solved three or four at this stage. GGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

  16. @Sandy,
    Re 10A: It’s an interesting one, that involves the appearance of the final letter of 14D, in its upper-case form.

    2D is a double definition. ‘Quick-change artists’ refers to people involved in motor racing.

    Oranges have these. The answer is a colloquial term that might not be very common. Some or maybe most pregnant women lose their 27A acrosses for a while. The bear is a fictional one, with first letter removed.

  17. @Arthur C., can’t help with carpentry sorry. A bit of a hint about 5D: All of the themed answers have appeared in the last 30 years. Perhaps Mrs C would be more familiar with them.

  18. I think Rogerd is correct for 22a. Floorboards are about 1*2 and any structural member will be at least 75mm in at least one dimension.

  19. Troubled by 10A…. got the answer but not the wordplay. Insights please!

  20. @ipuzzled, RE 10A: Okay, just read your hint above and I suppose it makes sense, but it’s a new style of clue for me and I’m not sure I approve.

  21. Re 10A , by removing two strokes from the final letter in 14D, you get the final letter for 10A

  22. iPuzzled, Ithank you for trying, but je ne sais quoi, if my interpretation is correct (I haven’t a clue).

  23. Thanks iPuzzled and JJ. With your help I have now completed. No wonder 10a was so problematic! I had the meaning of 27 correct but I hadn’t come anywhere near the colloquial term, which I would have spelt with a ‘y’ anyway.
    Anyway, now I have finished I can have a clearer head for the much more important task of preparing to preach tomorrow.

  24. Formerly DAwidow…

    Enjoying the theme. I’m excited at having solved a number of clues all by myself. For the rest, I have all of you…

  25. Welcome MoT! Glad you’re sticking with DA. The aha moments are worth it.

  26. got 9 of them so far, scattered throughout the grid. No idea on 5d or any of the ones that link to it, so further progress not looking good.
    Have a word for 27a that fits the lint collector bit, but no idea how it relates to the bear. From above it is part of the name of a fictional bear but not one that comes to mind.
    Most annoying are all those three letter words. Even though I have one or two cross letters for some of them I still can’t work out what any of them are despite all the above hints.

  27. @nn,
    Re 16D (one of the three-letter ones): ‘bank’ in the sense of depend (upon). ‘See’ is the def. Not in the sense of notice, understand or spy. The answer is a location or a building, depending on how you look at it.

  28. Hint alert!
    Unusually, there are two reverse hiddens this week.

    Nostalgic tangent alert!
    My two favourite 5Ds were not in this puzzle. One from 1993 and another from 1999, if I recall correctly. Both with the same leads.

  29. re 16dThanks iPuzzled I just googled Ruperts hint for this and found the answer. With your help I can see the wordplay but have no idea how this means “see”. The only dictionary I’ve found it in is the urban dictionary, but means something quite different as I understand it.

  30. 3D: The ‘swimmer’ is a mammal not found in these parts. ‘Raffle’ is the def.

    1A: ‘Persian’ could easily be replaced with Siamese or Burmese.

    17D: ‘Fleece’ gives letters 1,2,3 and 7. ‘to’ serves to link the wordplay with the def.

  31. thanks for 17d hint iPuzzled (I already had the other two). I now have letters 1-7 of 17d, but no idea of the last two. Presume stump supporter is the def??

  32. Ok got the see bit in 16d now. Have no idea how anyone would get that answer without being pretty familiar with the place. I’m putting that in my “far too obscure DA clue” collection now (one step below DA bullshit!)

  33. thanks iPuzzled, have been working on that def with no success. Have letters 1-7 from wordplay and your hints. If stump supporter is def presumably wordplay from last two letters somehow comes from “say, to”.

  34. and I still have no idea on 5d or any of the clues connected to it (or to each other). Attack of the ballpoint is looming!

  35. No sure if this one was easier this week, but didn’t have to visit this site until I had four to go.
    Got 5d early in the piece but the wordplay didn’t click until well after I had finished.

  36. Gave up with less than half of it done and no idea of the theme. Went to crossword club to look up the answer for 5d so I could get somewhere and still had no idea what it meant. Had to Google that before finding it was an abbreviation.
    Arthur if you are still there I suggest you shred this one!
    Some pretty odd defs in this lot too.
    No idea what the clue in 25/31/12 is supposed to mean, but I’m not familiar with the answer.
    A most unsatisfying puzzle, partly because of my lack of familiarity (or interest) in the theme, some odd defs and several words I’ve never heard of.
    27A was paricularly nasty as the correct name also had the same number of letters and threw me off on all the downs passing through it. Didn’t help that 24a was something I’d not heard of (am not even going to google it to find out what it means) and that 23d was part of the theme (which I didn’t have).
    Off to a Sudoku to get the cobwebs out of the brain.

  37. Hi there DA trippers.Got it done in half an hour today EXCEPT 16D which I spent another half hour on (despite having 2 out of 3 letters!) before turning to you for help! Have now figured it out with the hints from ipuzzled-thank you! Must say I think that it is one of DA’s more spectacular obscurities! I also think the theme is easier today for women rather than men (which makes a change)

  38. @Clueless in Hobart,
    Glad you got the whole thing out eventually. Getting the whole thing in an hour is quite an achievement, I think, even if you were stuck on one clue for 30 mins.

  39. Got everything out much more quickly than usual, although I had no idea of the word play for 16D until I read the comment from iPuzzled (at 12.08). Thanks for that, iPuzzled. I enjoyed the themed clues, although I needed my better half’s help concerning some of them.

  40. Thanks iPuzzled for help with 1a and 27a. Just two to go: 4d and 24d.
    John Carney – not sure about your complaint about 26a – whether it’s 3-3-3 or 3-3-4 would depend on the sentence, wouldn’t it?

  41. Just have 29a to go. The only phrase I can think of doesn’t seem to fit the clue. Unfamiliar with this selection of 5ds, but they are known well enough to solve.

  42. Thanks sb :) The light just went on for me. This is one 5d that hadn’t seeped through my consciousness :( Thought my solution was another type of term, perhaps involved in 9a, although that’s possibly relevant here, too.

  43. NO! Resigning in utter defeat. Have only 7D, 15 & 22A. If 27A is the mystic umbilicus, as someone above seems to be suggesting, then I am totally unable to see how the clue points to that. Bear? Carry, or grizzly? Looks like I’ll have to wait for Monday’s paper, this one was totally beyond me. 5D might have helped, but could make nothing of clues above. Very sad old man retires, humiliated.

  44. ArthurC,
    5D, think of another 2 words for chick flick
    Dont worry about iPuzzled’s attempt at providing a clue by saying something that happened in the last 30 years. Seems to me that could be anything

  45. Decided to have another look, remembered I hadn’t check the anagram in 13A. Once I had that, another seven answers flowed. As for the suggestions of iPuzzled and JimmyDArat, not helping. Words for a chick flick? No idea what that means. Sex-laden movie? I never watch movies made later than 1960, the earlier ones really are better, no profanity or blasphemy.
    Any other clue that might help a non-movie goer to get 5D would be very helpful.

  46. RogerD,
    Your explanation of the wordplay in 22A is absolutely brilliant and i believe correct.
    Well done.

  47. Well, I just read a couple (or three) pages of definition of chick flick, I now understand what it refers to, but nowhere did I see a synonym that would fit 3-3. So, for today, finishing with only twelve.

  48. ArthurC
    For your eyes only, i detest spoilers but this is for you .
    5D =Rom Com. means romantic comedies, eg. films that women like, or more commonly known as chick flicks. google the top 10

  49. ArthurC
    host = mc (master of ceremonies)
    space = room
    mc inside room = romcom

  50. I’m with Arthur, gave up in disgust. I think that having an abbreviation as the answer to the vital clue was way too hard for anyone not familiar with the term. Even with cross letters you had no hope of getting it unless you were familiar with the term as it is immune to any sort of wordsearch.

  51. Re: 22A – While sb is correct in saying both forms are grammatically correct, depending on context, I think 3-3-4 is the usual colloquial form, which exactly fits the definition in the clue.
    The use of “see” to clue 16D is common in UK crosswords. It’s useful since 16D is, of course, a part of many English words.

  52. Thank you JimmyDArat, I had heard that term many years ago, thought it had to do with dodgy business practices. I’m unlikely to know the names of any such epics, will try the suggestion to Google them.

  53. No, the only sensible course is to abandon this one, I don’t do movies. Looked at a very long list of these via Wiki, decided ‘Pretty Woman’ would fit the two down words I had at 9A, but I see no connection between that title and the clue. So, scrap it until next week. Sayonara.

  54. Also for that one. Think of English translation in a pondering way in relation to said virgin.

  55. Nope. We are right. My dad got 4d. So that one should be a given for you which would confirm our 9a.
    Am I making sense?

  56. Wow. I finished. Needed some extra help on a few but mostly got it from clues above and google. Happy with that.

  57. Arthur. re 9A “Quite Pallid” is “Pretty Wan”. If you ‘Skin” the word “some” and put it in there. You have answer you said.

  58. We weren’t very happy with quite a few of the clues / answers today. Can someone explain the word-play in 29A. It doesn’t “work” for us.

  59. The answer we have for 19A, is table linen – not necessarily sheets. And why the ? mark

  60. No fool like an old fool! I came back to it, having not looked at the posts following my las cry of despair. I had heard of a couple of these items, though I had to Google the name of the lady in 25D etc. Also dug out 29A from memory of seeing the title somewhere. 17D has me troubled, since I associated it with a bloke named Silver? But that gives me a near-impossible 27A. Perhaps it isnae what it appears. 8D also a bother, I was thinking of William, but couldn’t make that fit. A name meaning a quick attack attracts, but then what is 10A? Apart from those few, I’m more or less finished. Thanks to Michelle above, I found her via Google.

  61. I’m with nn and Doug & Gwyn, only I’d go further and say this week’s was, for me, the most unejoyable ever, with the greatest amount of effort for the least satisfaction, and the longest list of dodgy defs, wordplay and surfaces ….
    and a theme I know almost nothing about and care for even less. Some above have said it should favour women … not this chick! But then I’m more into the Marigold Hotel/Bucket List/ Fried Green Tomatoes age group. Had no idea about ‘Splash’.
    27A How many solvers who got the answer haven’t recently had 5 year old children in the home? Never heard of it. Spent ages trying to uncover ‘bear’ to get ‘navel’.
    19A’s got too many faults to mention.
    26A should be 3,3,4 grammatically.
    4D how is the final ‘s’ clued? Not plural.
    And 2D is exactly what it is!!

  62. @Doug & Gwyn,
    Re 29A:
    ‘effective’ provides the first word.
    A verb, meaning ‘doctor’ (or engineer), reversed, gives the next three letters.
    50 gives the last letter.

  63. I thought 19A was perfectly OK, Gayle. City (large Jonathon), accepts trimmed broadsheets, gives a word for linen that includes sheets? I probably have a few wrong, including 23D, where I have a common Irish girl’s name, with a common English surname at 6A. But I’ve no idea what the clue mean. Will wait till tomorrow.

  64. Stick with it Arthur – you’re doing well! 17D indeed relates to a bloke names “silver”
    With regards to 27A – you are correct in your earlier post – umbilicus, the bear is …………..the Pooh – although we wouldn’t have spelt the answer like that, – some people have 27A’s and some have outies, particularly pregnant ladies.
    8D comes from a 5D, which is a 5D, called “When [30A] met [8D] ” -so you are correct again, with your thought on “a name meaning a quick attack”.
    10 A should have had an apostrophe before the 1st letter – is poetic.
    You are also correct with 23D / 6A. Another word for 14D – letters 1 – 6, another word for shades – last letter of 23D and last 4 letters of 6A with (J)ust heading as the 1st letter of 6A.
    Thanks for your explanation iPuzzled – now we are not puzzled any more.

  65. I thought this weeks cryppie was one of the easiest ever, loved 2D, loved all clues really.
    Nothing unfair or dodgy, there never is, its just typical Astle

  66. Oh well, I musn’t have been in the zone this week, Jimmy. Too many late nights watching the ‘Limps’. But I gave it a good burl … for two whole days!
    And I do throw down a challenge … how much of the (word)play was after the event?
    (Only people who didn’t get 5D and related clues and who didn’t use contentious space-age 17Ds qualify.)

    I thought 5D was Pee Wee, and 26D was half of Hitchcock, and 25 D was There’s something wrong here, and DA was having another coprolalia moment.

  67. Got it out 2 weeks in a row ( which is a PB), and I can’t agree with the criticisms of the theme. I’m the wrong demographic for most of the 5 downs, but 25 down is often referenced in popular culture. However the truism applies here as for the TV quiz shows– it’s only when you don’t know the answer that the question appears hard. And for what it’s worth, 27 across had a whole roomful of non-DA addicts in hysterics.

  68. If the answer to 5d had been chick flick instead, it would have given some of us half a chance as we might have been able to work out the words from the cross letters, then google the answer if we hadn’t heard of the term to then gain an understanding of the theme. But to have two words that are abbreviations made it impossible for those who’d never heard of the term. If I’d known it (and been familiar with the theme), then I probably would have thought it was easy too. Instead it was just very frustrating.

  69. I too spent an awfully long time trying to work out what an abbreviated bear had to do with navel.

  70. To quote, I think, Rupert– doing DA consists of long periods of frustrated silence punctuated by banging one’s head against the desk.

  71. Could anyone do this one without any help at all? No books, no internet, no hints, no partners, no reading the paper the next day, no crossword clubs, just exam conditions? Honest answers only please. Just asking…

  72. I managed to get most of it out, leaving four or five to puzzle over at the pub .
    Unusually for me, I only resorted to Google to
    confirm one answer, the ‘see’. The theme eluded me at ,
    And I ‘reverse engineered’ more clues than I normally would.
    Overall, not too hard by da standards.

  73. @Robin: not me. I needed a word finder to get 18D. I also Googled 16D to see if there was a meaning to the word that I didn’t know (which there wasn’t, but searching reminded me of the diocese synonym).

  74. @Robin,
    I needed help with about 5 clues. Like thelloydr, I needed to confirm the name of the ‘see’ but I’d already pencilled in an answer from the wordplay.
    Needed help from this site about the function of ‘in the canal’ and wished DA hadn’t left out the word ‘auditory’.
    But that’s about par for me. I very rarely get the whole DA puzzle out without resorting to a resource or two.

  75. Unusually this one came out without any external assistance, though I had to Google the plant to confirm that there was indeed something of that name. But more commonly Iadmit defeat on Sunday evening and consult this site—as much for explanation of the answers as the answers themselves.

  76. There’s no way I could make navel fit and pitied collect fluff too, don’t they ?
    I had to see google for the see… So yes I needed help too. Some were fun, especially when I got billy and meg … Then Cameron, so the 5d finally twigged.
    I just realised I had Long John with a log ….

  77. For it all except for 27 (which is at least one clue better than the previous two weeks).

  78. Thank you everyone for your thoughts on outside assistance. All very interesting and well done, nf, I think you get the gold.

    I think I asked my question on Sunday out of sheer frustration! So often I read how some very good people here report coming to this site only after completing all they can unassisted. I nearly always give in early as I enjoy everyone’s comments and ideas so much.

    This week I decided to really give DA a good shake on my own. Pity I chose a themed week! I was out and away from home and had no internet or books so really tried to crack it without either. Every time I looked at it I seemed to get one more, even began to feel optimistic. Was very pleased with myself getting dwarfism, ere now, cowbanes, net gain, postwar, his and her, janitor, restyled etc AND all the word play. I too got the two by two and the BYT bit but not the WOW and the TO! Cattle car, followed, then Cape Byron, tie and til with its dropped strokes.

    Could I get the crucial clue? No I couldn’t. I knew 23D,6A was somebody Jones but who? I finally cracked and looked up 5D only. ROM COM. A little used abbreviation… Usually hyphenated but not here… A film genre missing from my collection… After a moment to Google ‘Splash’ on IMDB, they came in a rush. Bridget Jones, Sally and Harry (very clever), Pretty Woman… hence my question and utter admiration for those who got it all out!

  79. Observations…
    9A should it not be ‘some skinned’ to give you OM rather than ‘some skin’?
    22A a brilliant piece of DA with his deliberate deception about floor materials IMHO
    29A great use of ‘doctor’ because ‘doctor’ is so well used (over used) in other setters’ crosswords to mean DR or RD or MO etc
    14A excellent, smiled when I got this one

    Please explain…
    1D what’s all this about? I got it from ‘New Age mecca’ and going there every Easter. What is the Weasley/Hogwarts bit?
    21D,11A how do we get RUNAWAY BRIDE from ‘making G&T for Bridget Jones’?

  80. 5D I beg his pardon, it is hyphenated here. My Herald is a bit worn out this week…

  81. I think as long as i dont CHEAT by looking at this site until im totally finished , then i can use any means i can to solve the clues.

  82. 1D: Punctuate it as 4, 2, 3.

    21D/11A: It’s not Jones, just Bridget. To get from BRIDGET to G and T, what do the other letters have to do?

  83. Thanks Rupert, that is great, isn’t it? Runaway BRIDE … wonderful. An ‘aha’ moment for those that got it!

    1D Know zip about Harry Potter (almost). Certainly had never heard of Ron Weasley. Does he wear a cape?

  84. @Robin,
    I think there are capes at Hogwarts for various occasions. I think Ron might have worn one to the Tri Wizard Tournament ball in The Goblet of Fire.

  85. Thanks iPuzzled. But it sounds like you more than think, I think you know…! :-)

  86. Hi,
    Can someone help me with the interpretation of “see” in 16D.
    Thanks & regards,

  87. “See” as in diocese – the territory of a bishop. I’ve never heard it used to describe the squares controlled by a bishop in chess, though I think most chess players would appreciate the wordplay.

  88. Thanks Rupert.

    I guess this type of clue could be used to refer to any such area? Which brings me to another question.

    I hope I’m correct in assuming that DA uses “perhaps” to indicate a specific example of a given category; e.g. “Splash, perhaps…” clueing Rom Com as a category by virtue of Splash being a specific example.

    In this case, the example clues the category. However, does DA also do the reverse? So that “perhaps” lets the category clue a specific example? The sort of clue I’m thinking about is say, “Join Asian in the canal”. Is there a reason or convention why this isn’t clued as say, “Join Asian, perhaps, in the canal”? Or no hard and fast rules applicable here.

  89. Hey Grant,

    Perhaps/maybe is used for three instruction-based purposes that I can think of:
    1. As an anagram indicator
    2. As a “dodgy” indicator, like a question mark
    3. To signify that you should go from specific to general rather than general to specific

    Asian to Thai doesn’t require a perhaps because that goes from general idea to specific. The inverse is the only time some kind of indicator is expected, i.e. if the clue said Thai and the answer was Asian.

  90. Thanks AS.
    Regarding 3, I thought that had been my experience with “perhaps”, but hadn’t paid enough attention to know for sure.
    Reagrding 2, does a “dodgy” indicator mean that some lateral thinking is required to get to the answer?
    Regarding 1, I’d never thought of this as an anagrind before!

  91. Yep, Grant, put more positively, perhaps does often signify that the clue requires some lateral thinking.

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