DA Confusion for the 27/28th of January, 2012

Resolve all your dilemmas or trilemmas or perhaps even quadlemmas here.

87 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 27/28th of January, 2012

  1. DA wins this week. I guessed at 16D, and some googling shows that what I have written in is not a type of hot rod. So now I have to doubt my answers for 15A (generally written, according to Google, with the words in the other order) and 25A (a change).

    I have no answer for 2D or 27A (is this the Kelly who wore a bucket on his head?).

    I don’t get the wordplay in 7D.

    I did like 1A and 22D/1D, and 13 is a very cool word.

  2. 2D def is radio station, how to make savage sage
    27A you got the right kelly
    16D def is bolted
    Can’t help with 7D

  3. 7D clothing, letters 1,2,3, & 7. label mostly, letters 4-6. topless material last three letters.

  4. Had a great time with this one today. Finally out. Invented a couple of words..namely 13D and 15A, that turned out to be right.

  5. I am with Tim. Where is everyone? Through 5 hours of Djoker slogging it out with Andy last night, I slogged it out with DA and got most go it, with some very convoluted word play and no help from Trippers.
    Still struggling in SW, unlike Mike H. Any help with 13d, 15a, 16d or 26a?

  6. 13D anagram for a symbol. 15A ends with”n”. 16D hot as in stolen. 26A unhard with respect to difficulty. All bad clues in my view. Not fun today.

  7. Thanks Mike. I had already worked out 13d – what an obscure word! That gave me 26a, though I am still not sure of word play. Your help has given me the other two. But I still can’t work out how the rod stripped emphatically gives the second part of 16d

  8. All done in 2 hours! I filled in 13d and had google confirm it. Only got the wordplay for 7d, 16d from comments here, tks Mike and jj.
    I thought there were some great clues today …1a, 2d, 10a,12a, 14d…

  9. @ Arthur, after getting a few cross letters in 25A I thought the answer might have been kilometers and that DA had been reading the discussion you generated in The Age green guide over the last few weeks (I’m assuming it was you). Your response this week was magnificent!

  10. Nearly finished but can’t think how some answers work – notably 3D, but also 7D, 8D and 20A.
    Hints for 13D and 14D would be appreciated.

  11. Got about 3/4 of it out before giving up. Some wordplays a bit obscure.
    Am still trying to understand wordplay in 3d. First 7 letters ok, but last 5 appear to be clued by “to smother”. This doesn’t make sense to me as the 5 letters are what you do to someone who is already dead, don’t see how you can smother them then!
    Got 24A from wordplay, not sure how it fits the def, which I presume is Chisel.
    7D and 12A wordplays just a bit too convoluted for my liking.
    Lots of good ones today, particularly liked 1A, 10A, 19A, 20A, 16d (thanks for explanation above Mike).
    11a was good misdirection with the punctuation.

  12. Oh well, at least I could start with the simple ones :9A and 22,1D . 13D is a complete mystery,
    Mike H’s comment above notwithstanding!

  13. Thanks, nn. I have been fighting for correct pronunciation of kilometre since ca 1972, when I was teaching at RMIT, and Vic Ed told us all schools would begin teaching metric units in ’76. Long story.
    I’ve filled in most of today’s puzzle. Mike Hs hint above about 15A ending in n helped settle an issue. Still lacking 7, 13, 14D, 15, 18, 24A. A couple of others open to review, but, overall, OK. My answer in 25A equates to skill, either manual or verbal.

  14. @Victor 3d, I think the first 7 letters are clued by a word meaning to nag around (circling) a word meaning getting on (in age). Last 5 letters are a very poor (IMO) synonym for to smother (see above comment)
    7D see comment 3 above by JJ. Topless material is a type of material used to make hats (among other things) but with the first letter missing. The label mostly is missing the last letter. Label being a synonym of name or definition. The other 4 letters are slang for clothing
    20A If you can’t see where the second word comes from, this explains the first word! Look in the middle of the merger.
    8D hip = in, am presuming Injure gives the first two letters, rest of the letters are sex.
    13D hash is the definition, bully is an anagram indicator.
    14d East London is cockney apply this to a synonym for shocking as in awful or ugly put this after a four letter word for diet. Particular is the def.

  15. @Arthur, I think you have 25A, trip is an anagrind of the word before it. Rest of it is a synonym for to see missing the first letter (facelift being the indicator to remove the first letter)
    15A the first word is something that causes pain, often in a muscle. The second word comes from decreases, but not in the sense of making something smaller, more like what you do with your clothes after washing them.
    18A def is first word. wordplay is a loose synonym of to calm with the first letter missing (leader flee)
    24A wordplay is a beginner missing “that’s”. Two letters. I’m assuming the answer is some sort of synonym of chisel, but I’ve only ever seen it in the sky or on a chessboard.
    If we can get them to pronounce Kilometre correctly we might have some hope of a correct pronunciation of Wimbledon, most of them seem to think it has a “t” in it.

  16. @Arthur 13D hash as in the # key on your keyboard. It has a rather fancy name apparently

  17. Thanks again, nn. My wordfinder didn’t bring up that word, I’d never heard it before. Only two to go, but a visitor has arrived, so must leve t for now.

  18. @nn 24a, answer and chisel are both slang verbs for cheat.
    Just given up on solo effort and come here for hints on last few. Not helped by wanting to make 19a raspberry!

  19. OK, I think I’ve got there now – thanks to all on here. (A pity I got 19a, actually, because without its last letter I could have made 8d end with English farceur Brian – not exactly fitting all of the clue, but still a fun and relevant word!)

  20. I think I’ve got just about all of them now, with help from you folks.
    1A still eludes me though. Is it a sort of make up word, the female form of a powerful feline? If 5D is the Indian Destroyer, I can’t see how the word play works. With 8D the word for “sex” is really a much more innocent word? [ on the surface anyhow]
    Is 3D an English playwright? The” nag” word doesn’t seem correct?
    With 10A I’ve got two of the cross letters and the “stoker” could be quite a few words if that’s the def.

  21. Conny – yes, it’s the playwright you’re thinking of, and 10A is the author’s first name.

  22. Gosh GB, that really throws me. I meant the playwright was in 3D first name and second name.
    10A is different isn’t it?

  23. And you’re right about 5D, the first 4 letters are apparently a sort of knife – not one i’ve heard of!
    1A is a dodgy female form of the big black one.

  24. Thanks GB. I thought that about 1A but I am still puzzled about 10A being an author of any sort

  25. @Conny 10A is different to 3D, 10A wrote a novel, 3d wrote plays.
    Nag as in to go on and on about something, synonym is also a musical instrument with many strings, ie to _ _ _ _ on is to nag
    8D, yes, much more innocent, you also hope to do it in chess.
    1A you are correct, wordplay is quite funny, have a look at where the first word in the clue appears in the answer and then look at what it is surrounded by (i.e. wearing).

  26. Daa…hh Thanks nn. I gettit now. I knew that nag meant that go on and on part but I hadn’t thought of the musical instrument. I gettit with that one also. Thanks.

  27. All finished. Overall, fairly easy, but I did get two or three helpful hints here. If anyone here has doubts that there is only one possible (with tiny differences) pronunciation of kilometre, I could possible paste the story here. Is there a limit on size of posts here?

  28. GB, the weapon in question is mostly used in prisons, where it is made from whatever scrap metal can be obtained. I would appreciate any hints for 7D, 8D and 11D. I’m sure I have the (innocent and chess-related) 4-letter word for sex, but the rest eludes me.

  29. False start for us. Knocked off what we thought was DA in 20 minutes, then found we’d done DP. The real thing was of course much more exasperating – still don’t understand the wordplay for 8D, 25A, 12A

  30. Arthur, go for it. I didn’t get OCTothorpe. Has your story got something to do with antepenultimate syllables?

  31. Dave R – 7D – ‘Lingerie’ is the definition, a fairly archaic example I would have thought – think Benny Hill. The convoluted wordplay is explained above, I think.

  32. Dave R the four letter word for sex needs “ing” as the ending.
    11D ignore the hyphen in the clue, it is a double definition, “Had over” and “adjusted”
    7D def is Lingerie, wordplay hints can be found above.
    8d I think the first two letters are a sort of synonym of injure as in to _ _ someone over.
    25A cunning as in deftness is the def. First four letters are an anagram of road (trip is the anagrind), rest of it is to see something as in to bear _ _ _ _ _ _ _, but with the first letter missing. (face lift is the indicator to remover the first letter).

    Ben 12a def is new tv. Wordplay is really messy. The Indian is a north American tribe. A synonym of break minus the first letter appears before this, the whole lot encased in a word meaning to design something.

  33. A synonym of ‘injure’ is the first 2 letters. Rather than saying: “I’ve injured my knee” an Aussie might exclaim: “I’ve …. me knee”.

  34. Dave R, the weapons can also be made of plastic these days. There was a prison riot in the news recently because the gaol changed their toothbrushes.
    7D JJ gave in third post.
    8D got me too. I thought ‘practice’ might be the first two letters, but they are ‘injure’ as in ‘He did his hamstring’. Hip = letters 4,5 contained in a synonym for copulation.
    I liked 11 D. Double definition. Hosted someone, and adjusted.

  35. My goodness, Dave R, 5 posts in about as many minutes in response to your question. As usual, I’m the slowest.

  36. Hi to the DA Trippers, I haven’t posted before. Generally I find DA a real challenge but I’ve mostly puzzled out this week with your invaluable assistance.
    Any clues on 27a? I have an answer, a synonym of self- assurance, but I don’t get the wordplay or the def! I have
    First 5 letters : Synonym of encaged, minus its last 3 letters (Kelly escaped)
    Last 5 letters? Who is the ‘old poet?’ ??
    Any help appreciated …

  37. Jess42, the old poet is famous for “Inferno”, his surname was Alighieri but he is best known by his first name, he is quite old, lived 1265–1321. The answer is a synonym of close mate, not of self assurance, although it is almost a homonym of a word for self assurance.

  38. Would appreciate help with wordplay for 4d & 26a. I can see about essence (2,4) at the beginning of 4d but is fairly exceptional rare? If so why no E? With 26a, why ABC? Thx, feather.

  39. Fairly exceptional just means ‘most of’ rare. I guess 26a is just referencing ‘easy as ABC’.

    Got it all out, cross fingers.

  40. Back to work on Wednesday and back to DA today. Took a while to get going and am left with one to puzzle over. 6A – I have the second and fourth letters and feel pretty confident about the third letter but that leaves me struggling to make sense of the answer. Hints would be appreciated. Thanks

  41. First time posted and so happy to find I’m not the only one who looks forward to Friday so much. Unfortunately I never look at it until over the weekend and like to stew until Sunday so I miss the buzz here.
    I was down to final few words and found the help useful but even better the explanations which with DA can often be a whole new task again.
    It took me ages to understand how he got 8d but now after much help I’m there:
    letters 3, 6,7,8,9,10 is sex letters 1&2 is injure (as described above “I did my knee’) and letters 4 & 5 is ‘hip’ groovy etc
    Bit late I know but just had to share that.

  42. @RAD 6A crickey is the def. Answer is a word you don’t hear much these days, but is an exclamation of surprise. Last two letters are an abbreviation for a commercial, first two are an abbreviation of for one as in the sense of for example.

  43. Gayle, sorry to be so long in complying. As I said, I was teaching at RMIT at the time. Realising some of myfellow teachers were using the USmispronunciation (something like kuh-lom-et-uh), I wrote to the Director General of Education, asking that the correct pronunciation be Gazetted, and made compulsory for all Victorian teaching staff. DGE replied, assuring me this would be done. Sadly, it never was, resulying in teachers passing on a variety of incorrect pronunciations to pupils; the US variant, theUK variant (kil-om-et-uh), and two home grown Oz versions, clomm-et-uh, and even ker-lom-et-uh. Ridiculous, but the Metric Conversion Board, back in the 50-60s got us off to a bad start. Will now tryposting some more of the story.

  44. Below is a list of SI units and prefixes. Thinking about the common mispronunciations of kilometre (such as the US kuh-lom-uh-tuh), every educated person should understand that the prefix kilo can be attached to any of the 28 SI units (also to byte), though some (eg, kilo-henry) would be a bit unrealistic. Kilo (1,000) should always retain the same sound. Similarly, any of the twenty prefixes below can be attached to metre, which should always have the same sound (meetuh or meetrr).

    Clearly, most Australians have little understanding of the metric system, little knowledge of the SI units. But as I believe that professional people, such as teachers, have a responsibility to be accurate in their pronunciation of metric units and prefixes, which have been taught in Australian schools for more than thirty years.

    Table 1: SI units.
    Ampere (Electric current); Becquerel (Radioactivity); Candela (light intensity); Coulomb (Electric charge); Electron-volt (energy); Farad (Capacitance); Gram (Mass); Gray (Radiation dose); Henry (Inductance); Hertz (Frequency); Joule (Energy or Work); Kelvin (Unit of Absolute temperature); Litre (Volume); Lumen (Luminous flux); Lux (Illuminance); Metre (length); Mole (Amount of chemical substance); Newton (Force); Ohm (Electrical resistance); Pascal (Pressure); Second (Time); Siemens (Electrical conductance); Sievert (Radiation dose equivalent); Tesla (Magnetic flux density); Volt (Electric potential); Watt (Power); and Weber (Magnetic flux).

    Table 2: SI prefixes
    Yotta 10^24; Zetta 10^21; Exa 10^18; Peta 10^15; Tera 10^12; Giga 10^9; Mega 10^6; Kilo 10^3; Hecto 10^2; Deka 10^1; Deci 10^-1; Centi 10^-2; Milli 10^-3; Micro 10^-6; Nano 10^-9; Pico 10^-12; Femto 10^-15; Atto 10^-18; Zepto 10^-21; Yocto 10^-24.

    Literally hundreds of combinationso of prefix/unit are in use. If both are not enunciated clearly, chaos results. Try, for example: nanoampere, femtoampere, nanocoulomb, picofarad, kilojoule, kilokelvin, kilolitre, millilitre, kilopascal, picosiemens, etc., etc. They only convey the correct information if they are correctly pronounced.

  45. Thanks nn. I was thinking that was what is should be but had 7D first word incorrect – thinking more of some tightly laced upper body garment.

  46. Tricky one this week. Got out all but some of SW corner then visited here for hints. Thanks to everyone who posted. Liked the mix of words – old (6A) and new (12A), literary (3D, 10A and 27A) and workmanlike (15A).

  47. Arthur, I don’t disagree on any particular point, but what would we do for cryptic crosswords if English (as she is spoke) made sense?

  48. Rupert, my only commment would be that metrics are international, but need to be internally consistent. It is simply impossible to fit the variant pronunciations of kilometre into the system, since the system is based on clearly articulated prefix/unit combinations.

  49. The stressing of existing prefixes is not consistent, e.g. dissonance (1st syllable) and dissemble (2nd). I can’t at the moment come up with an example of a prefix being pronounced differently in different words, but I’d be surprised if there isn’t one.

  50. Well, as I wrote above, kilo can be a prefix to 28 SI units. To allow a variant because the Poms and Yanks thought kilometre (US kilometer) was just another measuring instrument like speedometer and thermometer, is, to me, ridiculous. Odd things happen. I was listening to the BBC to a BBC reporter talking to an Indian MP. The Pom was using kil-om-et-uh, the Indian giving the correct pronunciation. Listen to a Frenchman, you mostly get kee-lo-metter. Anyway, I continue to fight against what I see as abuse of a simple system. As to odd variants, think about three-letter words ending in ‘ad’. Go through bad, cad, dad, fad, had, lad, mad, pad, sad, tad, then, horror of horrors, wad!

  51. Thanks, Arthur. I too had to teach all the S.I. units AND cope with spelling sulphur as sulfur, which the Victorian Chem. subject committee said was an older and more correct version. Ended up on the said committee but no verbal fun in my day.

  52. Don’t get me started on the Sulphur, Sulfur bit. If we adopt the f then to be consistent we will be teaching about the SI units in our fysics classes!

  53. Am I too late to join in? Only just seen the recent additions to the pronounciation discussion. Don’t be too quick to blame the Poms, Arthur – or at any rate not all of them. In my experience (40 years of teaching Maths in the UK), all was well until relatively recently, and we Poms fought a brave fight against encroaching Yank-isms. The rot only really set in with the general dumbing down that started with the National Curriculum (which I swear was just scrawled on the back of an envelope by Thatcher and Baker, but don’t get me started on them!) I agree that you can no longer expect rigorous standards even from the BBC these days, but ’twas not ever thus.

  54. Well said (or written) ladies! Why did I assume nn was a lady? Apologies if I was wrong.

  55. As a matter of interest, do you also, like me, cringe every time you hear ‘billion’ used to mean ‘thousand million’? I’m afraid that battle is long lost, but it still saddens me.

  56. Arthur, your assumption was incorrect in my case.
    Mary, the sad thing about failed curriculum experiments in the UK (and US), is that, once they have been debunked, they are then imported to Australia. My suspicion is that someone has made a lot of money out of them overseas developing mounds of useless material to accompany them, which now needs a new outlet, so they pick the country furthest away to dump it all.

  57. I am sorry to have lost the fight on billion, if only because it adds an extra step to working out the word for e.g. 10^24*. However, I am glad I live in a world where so many people actually have a billion of something!

    * A quadrillion in the old European system, since 24 / 6 = 4, but a septillion in the inferior system we have these days (subtract three and divide by 3).

  58. Isn’t quadrillion a lovely word – I always think it should have something to do with a very complicated dance done while simultaneously playing cards!
    Yes, nn, I’ve noticed with surprise and consternation that Australia seems to be eagerly queueing up for all the failed educational theories that other countries have finished with. Does nobody in education ever actually learn lessons from other people’s mistakes?

  59. Mary no educational theory or system ever seems to be trialled properly in the first place. i.e. if you introduce some new system of learning in grade one it should be trialled for at least ten years and groups followed through well into high school to ensure there are no long term adverse effects. In my thirty plus years of teaching I’ve never seen this happen. Instead we just re-invent the wheel every few years based on the ideological ideas of someone with little classroom experience who won’t be the mug who has to teach it.

  60. On the ‘failed educational theories’. In April 65 I moved my family from Laverton (VIC) to the Newcastle area of NSW. No 1 daughter (Grade 3) had been taught using Cuisenaire rods for maths functions. But the school we arrived at had never even heard of them, all the kids had learned tables. It was shattering for my daughter, it destroyed her interest in number totally.

  61. In my school we extended the old ‘those who can, do; those who can’t, teach’ quote – it continued ‘those who can’t teach, become educational psychologists; those who can’t even do that become Secretary of State for Education.’ I took early retirement to escape from it all, but I still get hot under the collar at the drop of a hat, to mix metaphors a bit – it works quite well in this climate, though! Glad to find some kindred spirits on here.

  62. Mary, we had “”Those who can do, those who can’t teach, those who can’t teach, teach teachers and those who can’t teach teachers do educational research”.
    I’m a mathematics teacher too.

  63. p.s. wish I could afford early retirement, but luckily I still enjoy teaching young adults, despite the rubbish that descends from above

  64. I was told that F was Anglo Saxon and ph came in with Beau Brummel as a fancy linguistic addition to his cravat. Perhaps he didn’t do fysics!

  65. It was (I think) Johnson, who felt that words derived from Greek should show their Greek heritage with PH. Likewise words derived from French get a trailing -RE instead of the common -ER. Neither of these changes took hold in the Americas.

  66. Perhaps it was just a crap hat (back to my hot under the collar at the drop of a hat)!

  67. Hi,
    Hope I’m not too late.
    Could someone please help with the wordplay in 3D. Can get “old” (and “pin” I assumed for smother!) But lost on nag.
    Ta,
    Grant

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