102 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 21st/22nd of October, 2011

  1. 13A is so good. First I thought it was missing an indicator, then I thought the tense was wrong, and then I finally got it.

    10A is going to make some people upset, I suspect.

  2. Thought this quite easy for a DA although there is an obvious alternate answer for 3d which caused some confusion for a while. Some googling required for 25/9 but answer quite amusing when linked to 24a/1d.

  3. Finished it off after lunch, with some lucky guesses. I hadn’t heard the Australian slang words in 2D and 7D, and I hadn’t heard of 21D.

    27A quite good, but 13A still my favourite.

  4. A poolroom blitz this week. Some nice disguises – indicators that look like indicators but turn out to be definition or part of the fodder, eg 1A, 26A.
    13A was good, tickled to get it, with google confirming, when I saw something similar in a Times crossword recently. First in this time.
    Thanks to husband for explanation of 21 D and 8D answers. Went down what I’m guessing to be the same trail as Peter with 3D, and I thought I was on a winner with ‘Better’ for 22A. Didn’t know the composer in 12A. But the crossletters and wordplay in today’s crossie were helpful.
    Liked 18A, when I got it. For a while there, having only 2 cross letters of the second word it looked like something from surveying.

    DA might have verged on another one of his no-nos mentioned in “Puzzled” with 25/9 across. It probably is better associated with the last 3 letters of 16D. The term for what appears to be the reference to 24A/1D is a 10 letter-word C……..A. Maybe DA is a sufferer himself?

    I don’t like derogatory terms for women (6D) – or men – but will have to take the non PC (non prescriptive cryptic?) approach and accept that they’re part of the language. My first guess for the def of 2D was fun-police!

  5. I got 3D from 11D rather than the other way around, so I’m having a hard time imagining what the “other” answer Gayle and Peter had was.

  6. Rupert, Another synonym for a rough-sounding voice, also a drawer of 26A. Maybe English folk associate the answer more readily. I only watch the Iditarod on Foxtel. My first guess at the def was to look up an 8 member group who only emerge once a year.

  7. RobT, 3 strikes is a term used in 10 pin bowling (I thought it might have been hit, tap, etc but no) around a compass point.

  8. @Gayle: of course. My first answer for 26A had a homophone that means “kill” rather than “abuse”, and it fits your team of 8/9 better, as well as all the cross letters.

  9. Nowhere near finished – Gayle and Rupert beating me like a government mule this week. Still puzzling over 10A, 20A, 6D and 17D.
    @RobtT – re 8D, the three consecutive strikes would be in a pastime one would pursue down an alley. If you’re not a kegler, you may need to google it.

  10. 10A: Not a Simpsons reference, for once, but another American TV show starting with S.
    20A: Arguably should have been “filmmakers” since it is the last name of Louis and Auguste.
    6D: The cheese is from Mayenne.
    17D: Dope as in gen, and the material is glossy because of the metal threads woven into it.

  11. Thanks Rupert – had nutted out 17 and 20. I believe one of the 20s was more famous as a filmmaker than the other so won’t quibble with the clueing this time. Got 6 and subsequently 10 after your Mayenne tip, thanks. All done……

  12. @Gayle. Thanks . I admit I had thought of ten pin bowling after rejecting hat-trick, but couldn’t recall the term from the recesses. Of course, Wizard of Id then immediately came to mind…he’s the only guy ever funny these days.

  13. Having finished DA before 3.00 pm on a Friday I am feeling very buoyed by the achievement. I denied myself access to this site all day until I couldn’t bear it any longer! By then I had all clues except the six on the top right corner.
    I was mindful of Conny’s very excellent question of a few days ago as I have felt the same frustrations many times since taking DA and others up last Easter. However I think the more you do the more you discover you can get from the wordplay. When that happens you get the buzz that everyone is looking for. If you don’t get the buzz maybe you’re not there yet or you’ve been at it too long!
    Mind you I have a few wordplay queries as always but the penny drops for me more and more each week, thanks largely to the great assistance from everyone here.

  14. A nice one today. Not many answers popped out on the first scan but they came quite regularly after a cuppa and some shopping. Liked 10a 13a 18a and 27a. Like Gayle, I don’t like the tart synonym.

  15. Understandable reaction to the tart clue – perhaps he could have framed it around mixed uppercrust seasoning instead? Or a greeting with no energy? Endless acknowledgement?

  16. Gayle, in 12A I took the composer to be DA, have I got that wrong? There is a composer matching the letters 5-8 of the answer but I thought perhaps DA was having a joke at himself because the same answer came up 4 weeks ago.

  17. Ah, Robin, your thinking’s even craftier than DA’s, but he’s injected himself into another clue today. You’ve got the right answer – it has bobbed up recently – and therefore the right composer, I reckon.

    Noel, love your space station off its axis. :)

    Rupert, spot-on for the alternatives for 26A with the cross-letters and the distinction between them. Wiki says “In Australia where there is limited snow (both words) are given equal preference in local parlance”, citing the Macquarie Dictionary. (Except when read in conjunction with the correct answer for 3D.)

  18. Oops, understand your comment now Rupert. Got side-tracked on the finer points of the runners, and neglected the definition. I had the homophone of ‘kill’ that you mentioned, should have looked that up instead. Tiptoeing out of the poolroom: (

  19. Robin, congratulations on your achievement this week! All that practice you mentioned on the other thread has borne fruit. Over t0 the poolroom for you.

  20. 13A (from RobT’s comment in the other thread) is indeed kosher, though it’s very libertarian. The key is a synonym of “pawns donkey” that includes directive and fodder.

  21. Thank you Gayle, you’re very kind but I don’t feel yesterday’s effort was quite up to poolroom status! I needed a great clue for 10A from Rupert on the TV show – I had been all over PNG before that…
    Also I had the wrong adjective for for 14A and all the chatter on 6D led to the answer there too.

    I have the filmmaker but just cannot start on the wordplay for 20A. The other one bugging me is 7D. I don’t get the last four words in the clue at all. Suggestions welcome!

    Rob, I’m with you on 13A. Something is missing. Lovely deception though nonetheless.

    22A is very good, very DA. 18A is excellent too I thought.

  22. been at it an hour and haven’t got a single answer.Hope I can manage to work something out from above comments otherwise I’m going back to bed.

  23. Now have 4 answers plus a guess thanks to above clues. Probably should have got 26A myself.
    Would never have got 8d without hints. I was messing around with three strikes and you are out from baseball, didn’t know it had a bowling term (as someone who has never managed two in a row, never mind 3!).
    Would have been there forever googling varieties of cheeses if not for the clue above.
    Thanks to above I have the film brothers, it is the right length for the clue, but I don’t see how it fits the wordplay and I don’t have any cross letters to check if this is right.
    Have an answer for 7D, presume it refers to a rather ‘busy’ head of state, but if so don’t get how the second half of the clue fits.
    Time for a cuppa.

  24. just got 5A, kicking myself. Brain not working well today, but this reveals I was way off track for 7D, for which I now have no idea

  25. nn, 7d first letter is l’last to encounter’ rest a shortening for a man who may put people in traction.
    As for me, I am lost in many places. 2 d, 14a, 18a, 15d, and 25/9a. Any help, anyone?

  26. Sandy, I have the first and last letters of 7D from cross letters, middle three letters are missing, clues above aren’t helping at all. Can’t help you with any of the one’s you are lost on I’m afraid.
    I’ve been at it all morning now and only have 5 or 6. (not sure about the 6th as I don’t get the wordplay for my answer for 20A). I think I have second word of 14a, it being a branch of the army that deals with missile launching weapons, will try google for the first word and hope I can nut out wordplay. Have been going ok on DA in recent weeks but really lost today. Reading Peter and Gayle’s first comments about how easy it is this week haven’t improved my mood!

  27. 7D: Answer is an action movie character from the 80s. Sandy’s hint is correct, although the slang term for the paramedic is peculiar to Australia as far as I can tell.
    20A: wordplay is a word for one’s facial expression missing the last letter inside a word for appeal (in the sense of attract).
    2D: First four letters are an Aussie word for idiots minus one letter, last five are “be”.
    14A: Rocket launchers is the definition, although they mainly launch shells without their own means of propulsion as far as I can tell.
    18A: A single definition. Cute.
    15D: Unleashing head is the definition, in the sense of turning anticlockwise.
    25A/9A: Someone with this might say the last four letters of 1D or 24A at inappropriate moments,

  28. I know the feeling nn. I had a week like that recently where everyone else seemed to find it easy and I was lost.
    For 7a the man action is a film character and title.
    I had second word of 14a too, and a couple of guesses for the first word.
    For 20a first two and last two letters are a word that can mean appeal. But I haven’t been able to figure out what the middle three have to do with a curt expression.

  29. thanks Sandy, got 7D now. I have a guess for first word of 14A but no idea how it fits wordplay.
    Can see the appeal in 20A, but middle three letters? Was messing around with gloomier as a homonym with the firs letter missing (i.e. keep part of it) but then the appeal bit doesn’t make sense.
    Have managed 1D and 3D now.
    Have all the cross letters for 10A but none the wiser. From comment above it has something to do with a US tv show and by now I know that DA’s taste in TV is somewhat different to mine, so I have given up any hope of getting that one out.

  30. Rupert thanks for explanation of 20A, although I’m not sure about “curt”, or is this short for curtail? If so why do we need ‘part”?
    will ponder your other hints

  31. Rupert thanks, have 2D now, but the rest of your hints aren’t helping
    For 25/9A I have something of the right length (if I’ve spelled it right but my 5th letter of 9A from 3D is an S and this doesn’t fit. As I don’t have 24A I’m not sure if it works with that either.

    15 D unleashing head = turning anticlockwise???
    14A and 18A still none the wiser.

  32. Pouring down in Melbourne today, would have thought the other Melbourne trippers would be on here in droves. Either they found it too easy or have shredded it with the ballpoint!

  33. Haven’t read more than a couple of the above, have barely started. But, as a regular pool player, and the only one of about about 15 here in the Village who plays the shot in 21D, I was able to recognise it immediatel. I’ve only solved five so far, taking a while to get going. I prefer not to use the clues above till I have to, but not looking promising atm.

  34. Rupert, I get your turning anticlockwise now, but I’ve no idea of the wordplay of the rest of clue as unleashing is clearly the def.
    14A I have something that fits all the cross letters and has plenty to do with missiles etc, but wordplay lost on me.
    Now I have the following to go 17D, 19D, 21D 23D, 22A, 24A, 27A.
    Been a real battle today, wordplay on lots of the ones I do have is incomprehensible.

  35. Back to earth with a thud this week, had to google the film makers, and struggled with the trick shot and bowling terms; still not certain of the wordplay in 15 d and the Einstein reference escapes me. Thought 7d a bit dodgy – wouldn’t expect to be put in traction before arriving at hospital, and agree with Rupert that the connection with the mitary branch is a bit tenuous.
    I may be having a senior moment , but can anyone explain the significance of hot nurses?

    Nn, my retrofitted explanation of 20a is ‘mien’ curtailed?

  36. BRD, 20a, that’s what I’m thinking too, but why do we need the word ‘part’ as the third word in the clue?
    Agree with 7d comment.
    Nurses as in to cradle (he used this a couple of weeks ago). Hot = H
    Am off to google trick pool shots

  37. thanks JJ. I had no idea how many were in a softball team and am not at all nautical so that one was new to me too. Am finding the wordplays very obscure and/or dodgy this week

  38. Have I picked the right fruit in 4D? Homophone for English rocks? If so, I now have 7, though I can’t understand all the reference to nurses in 1A.

  39. Have googled the trick shot. The Einstein bit refers to M, the symbol for the first part of the answer in Einstein’s famous equation. Although the Physics in pool is adequately described by Newtonian mechanics, so Newton’s F = ma would have been almost as good here and may not have led me down the garden path of working out what the reciprocal of the speed of light squared had to do with anything!!! (Have never heard of the trick shot)

  40. Arthur to nurse something is to cup it. You are correct with your fruit, although as I said before it isn’t entirely accurate as the Elgin Marbles are Greek and it is the wrong type of rock. (but still good for a bit of a laugh, so I forgive DA for that one)

  41. It might be pouring in Melbourne but Sydney is sunny. In fact for me, trying to do a roofing job, it’s too darn hot so I’ve had to come in.
    Rupert, it’s good to see your very good explanations for 7D and 20A which had me stumped. You mentioned Australian slang in 7D yesterday which I didn’t get but now I see it thanks. I had the ‘last to..’ to give the O and not the R (‘last to encounter’). Very good. I was so desperate at one stage I was trying to make the BO = Bob Jane as the ‘man of traction’. (He sells tyres, Rupert).

  42. For those who don’t play snooker or pool, if you remember an Australian-made harvester, and detail the first half of the name, you’ll have what I assume is a French word. I play the shot when there is another ball directly in line with the ball i wish to hit. The cue-ball turns in an arc around the blocking ball, then straightens and carries on to the target ball. It only works about one try in three for me, but looks spectacular.

  43. I see JJ has jumped in with the lavatory reference I had as well. As a sailor the ‘heads’ are very familiar as far as I’m concerned! I have 15D as a synonym for ‘head’ for letters 1-3 followed by the reversal of the plural of nine, with the last letter being a bit obvious.

  44. Thanks nn, obvious now, I admit hot nurses had me going down a completely different track…as I did looking for the lay of the land.
    Still not happy with the trick shot – if Einstein indicates the use of the components in the relativity equation, why spell out the letters again? Personally once I saw m over e I was looking for mass/charge ratios and mass spectrometry terms and lost the billiards shot completely.

  45. 15D: I originally thought “soft” = the first five characters, then “ball teams” = the five reversed characters everyone else sees, but there’s some overlap that seems to indicate the marine head explanation is correct.
    Unfortunately that means we have a DA Error, since there are ten players on a softball team (two centre outfielders as opposed to one in baseball).

  46. gave up with a fair bit of the south east corner to go and went for the answers and explanations on crossword club
    Although I had the answer for 18A a few hours ago from the cross letters, I’ve still no idea how it fits the clue. All crossword club says is that it is a cryptic definition. While I can see it is ‘of the land’ how is it Lay?

  47. BRD I read 21D as (to Einstein M) over (E). In other words what Einstein means when he uses the letter M. The answer to this is then placed over E, so I think it is fair enough. Upper case E is Energy in his equation, but the m is lower case, so a bit of an error here. This clue probably sent all the science people off on a bit of a wild goose chase, perhaps DA’s revenge for us all having a dig about his arts background?

  48. 27A setter’s make believe had me going with Daydream for quite a while, but I couldn’t make it fit the rest of the clue. As I couldn’t work out lots of other wordplays today I left this in for quite a long time before I finally got a cross letter that told me I was heading in the wrong direction.

  49. nn, Pity those of us who are neither scientists nor pool players or the other ball game in this week’s. That’s 3 consecutive strikes to husband (otherwise I would have been missing a few more).

    “Lay” is old word for a song, ‘a simple narrative poem intended to be sung, a ballad’ says Penquin.

    Re 13A. I think it helps to think of the phrase used if pawning something. The something would be 1, 5,6,7 . The clue strikes me as a kind of container turned inside out, something that comes up occasionally and hits the brain from another direction.

  50. 13A sorry, the something would be 1,5,6,7. The containment or positioning indicator is implied. A very similar clue was in a recent Times crossword, and from memory that setter was fairly conventional in terms of Times cluing.

  51. Finally got it out! Found this week really heavy going, much harder than last week’s. I don’t get the wordplay for 20a though.

  52. That’s twice now I’ve attempted to put the word IN in angle brackets. This software doesn’t seem to like that. pawn = put in letters 1,5,6,7 . ( Only wanted to say a couple of words about that, didn’t want to shout the IN!)

  53. According to Wikipedia, a softball team has 10-14 players, of which 9 or 10 are on the field at any time, so I guess DA can claim to avoid an error in 15d.

  54. Geoff Smith, good one. Not sure if you’ve read earlier comments but 20 A:
    letters 3,4,5: a 4 letter word for the look on one’s face, with the last letter deleted (curt/short) contained in (part of) syonym for appeal, as in entice, letters 1,2,6,7.

  55. Thanks for the Lay definition Gayle, new one on me. Sympathise with you on the specialised knowledge required this week. I quite liked 13A, reminds me of two answers from a couple of weeks ago where the position of part of the answer was actually the clue. “Middle of nowhere” was one of them I think.
    I am still in awe of those who got this one out quickly

  56. 15D: All the softball teams I’ve played on have fielded ten players, though apparently nine is common, too. I’ll recant my accusation of Error.

    @Gayle, to show angle brackets you need to type < and >

  57. I didn’t like this week very much at all! Too many obscure references/ answers (sporting, TV, film, etc) and I found a lot of clues not as easy to decipher as usual (having done much better on my own in recent weeks). I only got there thanks to all the earlier hints.

  58. Perhaps because of people’s very encouraging comments in response to my question last week, i have been quite reasonably successful this week. I couldn’t look at this site as we had a monster thunder storm and 47mms of rain so I soldiered on all by myself. I really liked 18A. It was the first one I solved and lots of others followed. I thought with 13A that the two words had to be in sequence and then I suddenly realised that they were woven together. Good one!I had been thinking that it meant something like a vicarage = pad. I still am working on the NE and the SW corners but I am surging on. Thanks everyone for your good responses last week.

  59. ’tis humiliating that some contributors declared this an easy puzzle. I’ve solved only 7-8, totally lost now. I have 1A starting with P, but suspect that may be wrong. Is 12A actually a composer’s name? Tried Googling composers, but I was probably looking for wrong fist letter. Very disappointing overall. Probably best give it up, looks hopeless at this stage. But had some good games of pool this afternoon.

  60. Arthur,
    1a does start with P. It has one type of joke, useful in crosswords, followed by a word for nurses (as in holds) with an h for hot in it. It means melees.
    12a is not a composer, only the last four letters are (an obscure one at that). The first three letters are ‘Circle regularly’. And the answer is a feature of the arctic.
    I am still struggling with the first word of 14a, and therefore wordplay of whole clue.

  61. Sandy first word of 14a is a place where you keep cows (and other farm animals). The wordplay is L from left, followed by a type of missile, followed by a synonym of afflicted followed by E from enemy all contained in a synonym of hot! Talk about convoluted!

    Arthur I agree with you, this one was just too hard/obscure for me to even get started without the help of this site.

  62. I have completed everything except for 10A , a TV show which I don’t know obviously.
    I was going to ask for some help with word play and 14A was one of them. Thanks nn for the AMAZING explanation of the convolutions!!
    17D if I have this correct I don’t know where the ‘F” comes from
    24A again if i have this correct I don’t see where the FI come from
    12A I assusme the def is the feature of the Arctic Circle but I can’t work out the regularly sampled bit and I suppose the last 4 letters are the composer?
    Anyway, on the whole, I folund this puzzle to be really do-able.

  63. Ditto Conny’s comment – I can go to sleep now that nn has explained 14A.

  64. 17D – the first 3 letters of the answer are a 4 letter word (minus its ending) which is a slangy synonym for “the dope’ (as in news).
    24A – doesn’t contain F – it may help to refer back to 25/9. Goof is a verb, not a noun,in this case.
    12A – ‘circle regularly sampled’ gives the first 3 letters (well placed by DA next to Arctic).

  65. Connie 12A is a feature of the arctic (and the antarctic), but only when you are all at sea.
    Circle is part of the wordplay. The last 4 letters are a composer that none of us have ever heard of. Mr Google gives two possibilities, one an Austrian, the other born in Switzerland but lived in Denmark.
    24A last 4 letters are the same as the last 4 letters of 1d and have the same connection to 25/9
    17D I can’t tell you about the F, I’m afraid that information is restricted.

  66. Connie 10A is a character on the tv show (apparently). Also the title of a movie from a few years ago (or to be more precise the word appears twice in the title). Read the answer backwards to get the wordplay

  67. Strangely, my plea for help didn’t register. But, no matter, as usually happens, as soon as I pose a question it seems to answer itself and I feel appropriately foolish for having asked it. I am grateful for many of the comments above (especially from those who know about such matters as billiards and American TV shows), which have helped me to go close to a PB this week. Must say I loved 13A – a classic DA.

  68. Thanks nn and Feather. I should have seen the sample of circle and the others I am sorting out, I think. .. doesn’t empty market mean M…T?

  69. We admit defeat for the wordplay in 8 D. Thought we had the answer all along, but only confirmed it after having evey second letter. As Pauline would say “Please explain”.

  70. Conny 24A yes, empty market is M.. T. Letters 3 and 4 are given in the second word of the clue, letters 5 and 6 are what you might say when you welcome someone
    Doug and Gwyn 8D Point is a compass point, it is the 4th letter of the answer. The rest of the answer surrounding this point is apparently what you call 3 strikes in a row in bowling.

  71. Thanks, Sandy, for info above. I am still no further forward, but you have confirmed my 1A was correct. But following another clue up there, I now have first three of 14A, followed by – Y – G. It almost looks like the Y should be E, but I was certain of my 3D ending in Y. Am at the point of totally abandoning it, I finished the two previous puzzles,so I can afford to cede this one to David. OOPS. Suddenly 3D appears. Husky fitted perfectly, except for the Y not fitting 12A. Amazing.

  72. You’ve got to love DA. In 8D he needs to clue the plural of a certain 6 letter word. The word represents a very well known country. It also is in everyday language as something we eat. Thirdly, when being a little rude, we might call someone this. Does DA choose any of the above? No. Of course he doesn’t. He prefers a fourth meaning which the great majority of us here will never have heard of! He tells us it is a word for scoring three strikes consecutively in bowling!

  73. Arthur you have the wrong drawer in 3d (as I did for a long while). You are looking for a much larger animal that is used for pulling lots of other vehicles all over the world. I smaller variety of the one you want for this is also the answer to 11d.
    I’m guessing you meant 11A not 14A and the Y should be an E, it being the last letter of the animal in 3d. This animal also starts with an H and is also a synonym for someone with a rough sounding voice, usually from shouting too much.

  74. Thanks nn . I cottoned on to 24A later then I was away all afternoon. The welcome bit had me tossed!

  75. Some good clues (18A, 2D, etc), but overall there were far too many obscurities for me (and I HAD heard of Alban Berg, the composer). Plus the usual convoluted and sometimes dodgy wordplay. I only finished it through dogged bloody- minded persistence, a much-underrated attribute. It seems that even for Seinfeld watchers, “wild-haired neighbour” was a tough one to get, so how were the rest of us expected to cope? One whinge that nobody has made yet concerns 8D: it seems that a turkey in bowling is three consecutive strikes. So I can see how we arrive at turnkey (after applying “beset point”) but how do we justify the last letter of the answer, namely “S”?

  76. RB, Always enjoy your comments when the hubbub has died down each week. Like your overviews and finding that thing that nobody else has mentioned. Agree 8D is a turkey : )

  77. [taps feet]

    Where’s today’s thread?

    Finished the puzzle (a good one today) but have lots of unresolved wordplay.

  78. Filds arms – Seems like it’s right here. Looking forward to the train trip.

  79. Quick today. Too quick. Pb at 45mins odd.

    I liked 18A 27A 3D 16D and 23D but didn’t like the clueing for 5A 11A.

  80. Well done, Rob. It took me 75 minutes but that was along with waking the kids up and getting them off to school.

    AS need to learn how to schedule posts in WordPress so he can put up next week’s threads when he does his update .

    I thought it was a good puzzle this week. Lots of the humour that is the main reason I do DA. I liked 11A, as well as (in no particular order) 1D, 9A, 4A, 12A, 16A and 18A. 25D made me groan (in a good way).

    Not too thrilled with 19A. I don’t think it’s a very good example.

    I was pleased that I knew 21A and 13D. I didn’t know 22D, but got it from the wordplay.

    I’m perplexed by the wordplay in several clues (as usual): 8D, 27A, 20D, 6D and 5A.

  81. All done, quickest ever, which is just as well as sparky coming soon and no power today.
    5 A I think works without the ‘disoriented’. Can see it both ways.
    Liked 18A, 15 D. Googled 13A to confirm the definition.

  82. 8D: split word into 4&5 and you’ll understand it.
    27A: Hole=O. The first word is a personage in Oz. Local knowledge required.
    20D: I’m with you. no idea about the last 3 letters.
    6D: first 3 words is an expression/definition.
    5A: I don’t like the way it’s put but read the answer backwards and you’ll get it.

  83. 20D I misread the clue and thought it was referring to 24A’s head having just put that in!
    Second glance, it’s alternate letters of 25D answer, head, for.

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