DA Confusion for the 16/17th of September, 2011

Undoubtedly, there will be confusion.

Have it all sorted out right here.

104 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 16/17th of September, 2011

  1. Still three to go in NE and 5 in SW. 20A is excellent (though I had to Google it to understand it!)

    Some questions:

    In 4D and 13D the wordplay escapes me completely.
    1A: An odd synonym for beer. Is it an Ozism?
    1D: An unusual use of dusk. Has anyone seen this before, and what’s the justification?
    2D: “with capital” seems unnecessary.
    25/10/3: The title of the ballad does not include the first two words.

  2. A lot of easy ones today and yet I am only half done. Wish I knew my ballads.

  3. @RobT you probably know it. I wouldn’t call it a ballad, but it’s a long song with a story, so it probably qualifies.

    Only 22A to go. I liked 6A and 28A. 7D is a word I didn’t know. 18D is a word I hadn’t heard used in that context.

  4. 18D: In fact, DA is the top *relevant* link. The next one is in the urban dictionary definition of “scioness”.

  5. I hadn’t heard of 22A, either, and the wordplay wasn’t as easy as it maybe should have been for a word this obscure. I ended up cheating.

    Looking forward to you bright people telling me how easy it was, and how the wordplay works in 4D and 13D.

  6. Rupert, as always, relieved to read your comments about the tricky ones I’m still working on, but think I can offer 13D wordplay:
    1-4, 10,11 pencils in (1-4 pencils apparently); purchase=containment indicator, 5-9 back to back albums by festival’s end

  7. 13D first 4 letters are homophone of a synonym (plural). Last 2 are given. Gripped in the middle are small back-to-back vinyl next to the final of final.

  8. 1A The beer synonym is, I believe, common in Southern Oz.. but I thought also English?

  9. Finally finished. Thanks to Rupert. I also liked 20A but hated 18D. Don’t yet get wordplay for 16A and 8D.

  10. 4D – for the first word, think chain in the context of mountains.
    11, the ballad and most of NE corner still a battle for me…. I thought the rest of today was reasonably straightforward, but feeling pretty thick about the ones I have left. I’m assuming a solution to 6D will result in most of it falling into place?

  11. Don’t have 8D yet. For 16A, ‘Agreement mainly’ for the first 60%, ‘set’ for the rest.

  12. Ok, now have 11, 6D, the ballad (really? a ballad?) – missing 6A, 7D and 8D…..

  13. NE corner last in for me too. 6A, 6D, 8D and 11 A still to go. Despite having the third letter of 8D and Rupert’s hint, I don’t get Mississippi. .. but I know a lot about the tributaries, race courses, golf courses and foods! And I can’t think of a 3 letter word sent up drunk. Checked my email too but it’s not there.

  14. 8D: What are we counting with Mississippis?
    Send me an email and my address goes in which field? That’s what gets reversed.

  15. Yes, I have 25/10/3 but I can’t see the rest, even with all of the letters bar the first of 6A. Any ‘tips’? My ruler M, DA’s ruler ED? Profitable tips PE? Musical note abcdefg, do re mi. The def??

  16. @Rupert: re 4d: the second word is a position played in the Australian code of football. You know, the one played in southern, western and north-central Australia

  17. Gayle – re solving 6D, if you didn’t have 25 but had 10/3, then two out of three aint bad.

  18. 6A: I thought it had to contain PE for a long time, too. A very clever piece of misdirection.
    One of Do re mi etc for the note
    “my” = belonging to the setter
    the rest = the definition

  19. Years ago, when I worked in a bar, part of my job was to write the lunch specials on the blackboard. One Monday (the “special” was always 6D on Mondays) I was inspired to write “Dead Ringer for Lunch” by the side of it, much to the delight of the other staff, and much to the confusion of our generally retired clientelle.

  20. 6 D Groan , finally got your previous hint Rupert before your latest. I had been working on the anagram all along but without one essential letter, which I take is defined by the whole clue as it doesn’t fall as the central letter of the any of the other likely words… or am I missing something?

  21. Indeed! If it was exceptionally good and eaten near the games area, it might be “paradise by the dartboard light”. And if the food was off, “heavin’ can wait”……. Or “I would have anything for lunch, but I won’t have that”.

  22. @Noel: I didn’t think of any of those. “Cooked on a Modern Gril” just got me comments about my spelling.

  23. 6D I know what’s on the menu, but what are we having for T? I’m missing that ingredient … or are the first 3 words entirely coincidental and the whole clue is a cryptic definition?

  24. First three words are most of the letters, and the fourth word refers to the letter to be extracted from the fifth to make the anagram.

  25. Get it now, had been looking at the fifth letter, but hadn’t parsed the rest of the clue properly.

  26. Rupert, back to dusk-capped in 1D. The way I read that is the cap of dusk , ie D, over the mountain. There’s a good parsing catch in 1D .. took me a while to explain the first 2 letters until I broke that up properly.

  27. Gayle – I agree with your logic. I’m sure you have the first two letters right, Sport…..

  28. 6A revisited: T is the central letter of domesticity, which I had originally looked at but dis/miscounted – probably an optical illusion due to the size of the characters to the right and left .. and generally being a bit of a 6D or 25/10/3. What do you think quint or quintessential domesticity? This is an intriguing clue whichever way you read it.

  29. I took quintessential to mean the guts of domesticity – which, given the subject of solution, is quite appropriate! The word ‘quintessential’ stands alone as a clue for the letter being sought, so in that case ‘domesticity’ would be superfluous. Maybe just a happy congruence of words????

  30. 6D: I thought it was quint/essential, i.e. the fifth letter of essential, but clearly I’m wrong. Quintessential domesticity, i.e. the middle letter of domesticity, seems more likely, and has the benefit of not leaving a random word hanging out of the wordplay.

  31. I was allowing that perhaps the essential letter was the fifth one in quint. Wouldn’t be my preferred solution though.

  32. I’m still intrigued. So ‘a meal of’ is both the anagrind and most of the fodder? Or the whole thing stands alone with ‘ perhaps !’ I give up, it’s DA, it’s gettable, and it’s fun.

  33. @Gayle: This is an &lit clue, short for “and literally true,” where the entire surface reading provides the definition. The anagram indicator is “perhaps”, which unlike a lot of DA’s is quite conventional. DA seems to try for at least one of these per week, often succeeding. I think 14d was another attempt, spoilt by the use of “reckoned” to indicate the anagram.

  34. Yes Ian. I was leaning that way with 6A without using the dreaded ‘&lit’. I enjoy the discussion and it’s very early in the weekend. I don’t have a problem with ‘reckoned’ in 14D as an anagram indicator, esp with ? A conjecture or a ‘perhaps’, and it fits the surface – the kind of language a teen might use, and the answer. I see ‘term’ doubling up here as both part of the def and the anagram fodder.

  35. Sorry, did it again. 6D that is. Ian, what’s your take on 8D, and do you think 11A is fair? – word order of wordplay given that the def is pretty hard to get?

  36. @ Gayle: For 8d, I had the direction the Mississippi runs (to S(outh)), reversed. I thought 11a was perfectly fair; “of most suits” being the def. “Copy” and “legal outsiders” are pretty obvious elements, and there was a straightforward containment indicator. With one or two strategic cross letters, no problem.

    Was I teaching you to suck eggs re &lits?

  37. Ian, always appreciate your expertise and clarification. Very helpful.. Thankyou.

  38. Almost finished, after a late start (not as late as last week, which missed DA trippers altogether; and the week before which I missed completely!). Thanks for all the help. Still stuck on 21d. Also not sure what ‘with capital’ has to do with 2d. Any help?

  39. @Sandy – I was just popping by for a look at the DA Trippers chatter.
    I got most of it today, but had to resort to Google for 21 down.
    Given the time gap from your post (2.5 hours) this may be too late already:
    21D – the clue is given by the first and second words, with words three and four providing word play. The word play words each provide one half of the answer.
    For 2D – “with capital” refers to how one should read the preceding word, and despite the “s” on the end, it is a singular reference.

  40. I like Ian’s explanation of 8D (though mine works, too, I think).

    I lived in Minneapolis for 10 years, from where the Mississippi heads pretty much due east to St. Paul. Even there, the convention is that the river runs south, so South St. Paul is actually east of downtown and West St. Paul is south of the rest of the city on the other side of the river.

  41. Just beginning the fray. First seven came without too much trouble, now hard work required. 22A is good, though the direct equivalence of shock and the thing referred to is questionable. But a president’s son named Tommy spent lots of these! Don’t want to analyse any of the helps above yet, try and get a few more unaided. Avagood K (weekend!)

  42. Stoked to have just 2 left before resorting to the forum! 7d and 21d I suspect are on the obscure side? Can’t believe how clever 6d is, I thought just an &lit and never saw the wordplay and anagrams. I’m happy with both interpretations of quintessential, suspect DA engineered the happy coincidence.
    If I have the wordplay right in 22a, I think it qualifies as gold.
    Not however entirely certain the vinyl size in 13d often qualified as an album?

  43. Noel, those couple of lines are brilliant! Sums up exactly the whole DA experience! I’ll think of DA every time I hear Dean Martin now . Well done indeed.

  44. 8 to go, will look over all your comments for a bit of help now.
    DA missed a chance to almost land back on one of his idee fixes with 27A

  45. With 2D the first 4 words are the def, the primary is a first, then comes a synonym (yo-ho-ho). The last 3 words mean you should put a capital on the first of them. Are angels showoffs then?

  46. Help! That list of ‘ballads’ numbers 600!!! I’ve only got three letters of the 17, if I could get the first word it might help on that list. Have I as second letter. Only about 697 words come up in my wordfinder with I as second of four letters. Not much help. Only 14 solved so far, floundering a bit. I presume it is an anagram of tall hateful bookie?

  47. arthur C yes it is an anagram. You’re probably not familiar with the ballad or the singer, but it is also a well-known phrase for rushing like crazy at something.
    I have 4 to go
    20A, 24A, 21D and 23D (although I can fit a word into this but doesn’t make a lot of sense with most of the clue)
    Have a word that hit me in the eye for 26A but no idea of the wordplay.
    12A wordplay not entirely clear either

  48. Yes Arthur, it is an anagrams as you suggest. You may hear the whole thing if you’re going to the AFL grand final this year!

  49. Arthur, someone commented earlier that the title of the ballad doesn’t actually contain the first two words of the answer, so you will have even more trouble finding it in that list (as I did!)

  50. One other question: Is 18D the actual name of a town? Can’t work out a Spoonertism at all. Nossible Pectar? Quectar Nest? Not making any progress, don’t know if I want to go back to that ballad list. As to AFL Grand Final, I can’t see a connection to Good Old Collingwood forever, or We Are The Cats, The Greatest Team Of All. We are the Blues? Don’t know West Coasts song at all. Just give it away for the day, might look again tomorrow. Mind must be failing, I think.

  51. Got 21D now, hadn’t heard of that, but at least I was on the right track when I went googling.
    have 24A too but not clear on wordplay for last 4 letters.
    Put my answer in for 23D but no idea why.
    That makes 20A to go. Despite being reasonably familiar with the 7 pillars I’m getting nowhere with this despite having the cross letters.

  52. Arthur 18D isn’t the name of a town. I’ve never heard of the word being used to describe a town either, it is usually used to mean a small irritation apart from its literal meaning.
    For the Ballad think of nocturnal cave dwelling creatures getting out of a hot spot!

  53. gave up and went to crossword club for the last few bits.
    20A regarding = first two letters of answer??
    26A lead = letters 3-6??? An elementary error?
    Had wrong answer for 23d, no wonder it didn’t make sense!
    But lots of good ones too!

  54. I couldn’t find any reference to fleabite as a small town. But, apart from that, I did like the clue!

    nn: re last 4 letters of 24A, it’s “close to tears” (one letter) inside “revolving set” (three letters). Re 23D: read the last two words of the clue backwards. Re 20A: think computer info.

  55. 20A: Think of the answer as a phrase, not as separate components. Then I think it matches the wordplay of the last 5 words of the clue.

    26A: letters 4-6 of the answer are derived from “can”, not “lead”!

  56. thanks RB 26A can makes a lot more sense!! Am getting a bit too used to DA’s tricks with heteronyms for my own good!
    thanks also for the others. Makes sense now.
    Still have a quibble with 20A I just don’t think regarding quite indicates authorship.

  57. Another week of very good hints and explanations above, thanks to all. I still am stuck on a few details as usual.
    24A letters 5-8. RB I’m sure you’ve got it but I still don’t see it (re your 2.00 pm post). More help needed. please!
    21D I get the wordplay but …. OK, I’ve just got the geography!
    7D Letter 5 is a blood type, right? Letters 3-4 look like a chain (linked)?
    16A Set = band?
    Overall this is a very good week though. Another good one. I agree with others that I’ve never heard the extended play discs called ‘albums’, for the record, and I think you wear 1D don’t you?
    26D was fun, and for a while I misread 14D and 17D and had the answer to 17D as something teens say, assuming it to mean ‘I’ll be seeing you’; not a good moment when I saw the mistake.

  58. @Robin agree 16A set = band??? again in 24A set = put is a bit better. (backwards around the closing letter in tears)
    7D last three letters are blood types. (two are the same and I think you have these)

  59. I think the case could be made that letters 3 & 4 are links, as much as blood types, as Robin suggests. As with 6d, there’s often more than one very plausible explanation. It happens too often to be coincidence, and one more reason DA’s work is such a joy.

  60. nn, 20A is quite OK by me. The literary work’s author was commonly referred to as TE, just as Eliot was TS. AS a teetotaller, I can’t think of more than two cocktail names, but I believe there are several hundred. Is one of them in 1A?

  61. 24A, 7D: agree with nn’s assessment on both.

    16A: I justified set=band as in a group of people with a common interest or purpose.

    13D: agree that I never heard an EP referred to as an album.

    1D: I took it as a term for a cyclist rather than trousers.

    My favourites were 12A, 20A, 22A, 2D, and 6D (DA’s best &lit for a while).

  62. Arthur: re 1A, no, don’t waste your time (as I did) looking at a list of cocktails!

  63. 18D as “small town” may be an artefact of the compiler’s mind. A Google search on “small town”> yields one relevant result: on the davidastle.com blog, a post dated 26 July, from DA himself.

  64. @Arthur re 20A, I was fine with the TE bit, I just didn’t equate regarding with by.
    @RB 16A thanks, set = band makes sense in that context
    Re 7d, the double letter could be both links and blood types. Is the “to” superfluous here? Maybe it should have been “Medic links blood dope” if the double is a link? Like quite a few others this week there are several ways of looking at them, very clever (assuming they were intentional).

  65. Still baffled by 6A, 7D. Is there a reference to rohypnol (dope) there? My dictionary lists only three words that have the letters at 3 and 5 in those positions.

  66. Arthur, 6A is in two parts. Letters 1-2 are a note as sung by Julie Andrews; letters 3-5 belong to David Astle (the ‘my’ bit). BRD has nominated 22A for gold which it might be if it was ever touched by 6A.

    7D is a word most people would not have heard. Letters 1-2 are the usual medic; letters 3-5 are discussed above, letter 5 could be a blood group and letters 3-4 look like two identical links in a chain, at least to me they do but they could also be another common blood group. Good luck!

  67. Arthur, 7d is an obscure word IMHO, not one I was aware of; it’s in a few online dictionaries but not in the majority. Apparently it was an Australian creation from the 1930s.

    I spent a long time with 6a trying to get PE to fit in (profitable tips), but the trick I think is to realize that the ‘my’ in the clue refers to the setter! Classic misdirection.

  68. The answer is probably lurking in the back of your mind somewhere, you just can’t quite put your finger on it!

  69. Suddenly I start to get the idea (I think). I was thinking ‘me’ for the note. But if I go for ‘mi’ I can then get an answer. The term of disapprobation in 7D (if I have it correcetly) is one with which I am familiar. All i have left now are 16 & 24A, 14 & 21D. No, just got 29A. Due to poor eyesight, I had read that word as ‘arise’ instead of ‘anise’.

  70. Really having eyesight problems. It was actually 24 & 29A that I needed, then I found the 29A. Now if I treat 14D as an anagram, I can get something I’d find in a street directory, but if that is right, how does it fit the clue???

  71. Now I have a possibility for 24A, which could be looks skyward??? 21D clue not telling me anything. German word? Something to do with a Big Mac? Only need letters 1,3, 5 and the whole puzzle is ended.

  72. Arthur 21D is a German word, cheers!
    14D you’d find very many of these in a street directory! It is another slang term for a sort of nickname and is an anagram of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th words in clue. Reckoned is apparently an anagram indicator.
    24a is what (hopefully) happens to your car when you turn on the ignition. First 4 letters describe a celebrity (and you’d also look up to see them) letters 5, 7 and 8 are the revolving set. Revolving means to write it backwards, set as in place something. letter 6 is the close to tears (i.e. last letter of tears).

  73. Arthur, that’s interesting that you knew 7D, most here didn’t it seems.

    I’ve just seen nn responding so I’ll see if you’re alright now!

  74. nn, I eventually got the ‘cloze’ to tears instead of the ‘close’ to tears – very clever one. I was thinking a single letter as such would be I (eye) but it didn’t fit.

    Arthur, 21D is as nn says. It’s in two parts, 1-3 is a word for ‘for’ (in favour of) followed by a word for ‘rest’.

    IMHO the clue for the last bit of 24A is a bit iffy, the ‘set’ synonym I mean.

  75. Finally got back to look at all e comments. Thanks HiKa for helping me get the last clue.
    Two observation from rest of discussion:
    1. 20a ‘regarding’ is not a word indicating the first two letters. Rather the whole clue could be broken into a two letter word and two initials that could be described as ‘regarding Seven Pillars of Wisdom’ – ie a fact about that book.
    2. I had a completely different take on the &lit in 6d, which may have also been in DA’s mind. The first four letters are a word that can mean ‘quintessential’ and the second four are a word that could describe a state of domesticity.

  76. @Sandy, thanks for that regarding 20A meaning a fact about the book. That makes a lot more sense!
    Like your take on 6d too, the more we delve into this clue the better it gets. Would love to know if DA had all this in mind when he wrote it!

  77. 6D. Yeah, Sandy, I think you might have the essence of the definition. That ran through my mind too. And then on a lower level, just the two parts on their own meat + loaf, the basics. And the whole. Gold +++ !

  78. Well! I’ll get by, with a little help for my fiends. Da’s knowledge of other languages, displayed frequently on ‘letters & Numbers’ never ceases to astonish me. But, another finished. Thanks all.

  79. Finished, thanks to above hints. But don’t get wordplay for 9A – would appreciate help.

  80. Sandy, I like your thoughts on 6D as well. One of the first DAs I looked at in April this year had LOAF as the answer to the clue ‘Head lounge’ so we can assume DA has ‘loaf’ in mind when he thinks of domesticity.

  81. Feather, 9A is an anagram of ‘HEAD UP IN’ except that you need to get rid of the E. Accordingly DA has ‘dropping rave drug’ by which he means Ecstasy. This has a ‘street name’ of ‘E’. Dropping is of course a clever pun!

  82. Thanks, Robin. Once again DA has done my ‘head in’ and I couldn’t see the forest for the trees …

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