DA Confusions for the 22nd/23rd July, 2011

Confusions sorted out right here.

Enjoy.

117 thoughts on “DA Confusions for the 22nd/23rd July, 2011

  1. 16A and 25D to go. A couple of googles for confirmation and a couple of wordplays still to get. Never heard of 10A. No one clue shines but 17D is clever .

  2. @Gayle – 17D is quite clever. For 16A, think beyond the city for first 2 letters.
    @Mike – for “tracks” think of abbrev for form of transport that uses them (2 letters) . 2 Letters then for “old woman” all contained by an individual (6 letters)

  3. Some great misdirection this week, particularly 8 and 18.

    I liked 10A, if only because every time we go to Hawaii my wife points out that I’m an idle Morrish. I liked 27, too.

    Thanks for explaining 14D.

    I still don’t get 5A (last word appears redundant), 9A (second and third words appear redundant) and 28 (I have a word meaning “tycoon” but have no idea on the wordplay.

    22 is a new name to mean. My brothers-in-law won’t ride anything that’s not a Polaris (and won’t let me ride one since I crashed a brand new sled my first time out).

    Hadn’t heard of 1D (fun story), 13 (sounds delicious) or the pseudonym in 17D.

  4. Rupert, The “scandal” in 28A is a word used by the media to refer to any scandal since Nixon’s downfall. The maid may have no identification.

  5. Rupert, you did well to get 1D, although wordplay using 4D should help.

    Where’s RobT?

  6. Thanks for explaining 28, Peta.

    Does the lack of explanations for 5A and 9A mean everyone else is as confused as I am?

  7. Rupert, in 5a I take it that The type of glass could also describe a rolling drunk. The clue wouldn’t make any surface sense without the last word.

  8. @gayle: sorry have been up to my arse in alligators all week and today no exception. Managed to have it all out by now except for 2D.

    Any clues people? Is it a technical/magical term?

  9. @rupert.
    5A: Whack a ‘boat’ around your glass and you get some drunks. I think that’s what “rolling” means here.

    9A: its another name for a lighter/dinghy.

  10. Thanks RobT,
    Prestidigitation may not have fit, but that sent me to the dictionary, as I had never heard the term, and there was the answer, a homophone of the area of the accountancy profession.
    As for Rob D, 1a is a word for bomb (think old car rather than incendiary device) wrapped around a chopped word for arrest (verb).

  11. Sandy, thanks for the tip! Prestidigitation led me there too for 2D. I had heard of the word but I don’t think I would have got it without the hint.

    When I hear the word ‘prestidigitation’ it always reminds me of watching, as a schoolboy, Leonard Sachs as he introduced various old time music hall acts on the BBC show, ‘The Good Old Days’. Does anyone remember that?

    Leonard had a brother, Andrew , who became more famous than he was. Andrew Sachs, of course, played ‘Manuel’ in Fawlty Towers.

  12. 5A I liked RobT’s 9 letter word for drunks wrapped around a 7 letter word for glass, that has to be right.
    1A, I think I have it but still sorting out the wordplay in spite of the hints above.

    9A is not a terribly well know craft, at least not by me and I mess around with boats quite a bit. DA may not be a Pink Floyd fan so he must have missed another opportunity to go astral for a second week…

  13. Once I had the ‘M’ I wanted 28A to be Murdoch of course, so I didn’t initially like the answer but “anonymous maid” is brilliant and the whole thing refers to that other scandal. So now I love it!

  14. Yes, the “anonymous maid” is classic DA, as is “On The Ego”.
    Never heard of the tank swimmer – thank Heavens for Google.
    17D, 16A, 27A particularly clever.
    I must be getting better – only had to work out he wordplay retrospectively for 3 or 4 of them!

  15. Came up with a word I’ve never heard of for 13D. NaCl + Cockney man, + second + Australian? But it seems to fit. Anybody here know of it? I’m about halfway through, several words having come with a rush. I knew about the accountancy area, pays sometimes to be ancient but still have a good memory for words.

  16. @Arthur, you are doing well. I got the accounting one early on two (once I’d looked up how to spell it!) 13D baffles me. Your hint appears to fit what I have with the cross letters, but I don’t know what you mean by “second”, so haven’t actually come up with your word. I don’t know if I have 22A right, am presuming it is a brand name and that I have the first three letters, but the last three could be almost anything. Needless to say this is making 13D and 19d rather difficult for me.
    Despite hints for 9A I’m non the wiser, I just have the last letter.

  17. @Roin. I think the clue for 5A is unsatisfactory given “rolls” doesn’t precisely described that operatrion. So I reckon I’m either wrong or it’s one for the ‘bullshit’ folder.

  18. have a word for 5A that suggests drunk, but can’t find any type of glass called this?
    I have letters 1 and 5 (I hope!)

  19. nn, that ‘second’ was b, second letter. I had never heard of this dish, but it was in my online dictionary. I cheated here, I fed the letters I had into my on-line wordfinder, then put the only word that came up into the dictionary, and there it was. Do you have a wordfinder? They are very handy when you have a collection of disconnected letters. Probably not a legit way to solve a DA clue, but all’s fair in love and war. AND THIS IS WAR!

  20. Is the ‘famed legalist’ a fictional character, played in the TV series by an actor who could have been called ‘accent’? If its the one I had in mind, I can’t fit any part of it to the clue, but it fits with the letters I have.

  21. Arthur C., Peta has explained 14d in the third post.

    Still can’t solve 1a, in spite of hints above. Have bomb, but stuck there.

  22. @Arthur, thanks have worked out 13d from the wordplay and your hints. Suspect I’ve heard it somewhere before although I’ve never experienced it. Like you I resort to wordfinders, but the one I was using appears to be ignorant of this word!
    @Monica, Peta might have explained 14D, but didn’t help me at all!

  23. Rupert and RobT
    sorry didn’t reply .. bit minimalist at the moment .. brain and left hand not engaged

  24. thanks Gayle, that helped me sort out entire top left corner!
    anyone got any hints for 12A, I have all the cross letters, but they aren’t helping

  25. got 14a now, was messing around with the wrong abbreviation for the thing (was thinking of the vehicle) that uses the tracks.

  26. @ Rupert, apparently 9A is also a type of fishing rod as well as a type of boat and a booking.
    Got them all out now. Like 10A (which I had heard of fortunately), 2D (ditto), 5d, 8d, 17A
    Not too thrilled with 15A. My dictionary defines this word as applied to film as an expansion of the script into sequence form indicating camera angles, dialogue etc, hardly what I’d call a precis.

  27. Thanks Gayle, I’m aka 1a ;)

    I’m also having the same problem as nn with 12a. Last one!

    A treatment, afaik, can be a brief script outline explaining locations, special effects and so on.

  28. Well I finally got it out. The wordpaly for 1A eluded me, but the comments above sorteds it ou for me. Wordplay for 20A is still a bit obscure

  29. Monica, 15a not 12a, didn’t have any trouble with 12a (although it took me a while).
    15a definition of treatment from two online dictionaries that I could find gives
    “Films an expansion of a script into sequence form, indicating camera angles, dialogue, etc.”
    “treatment – an extended communication (often interactive) dealing with some particular topic; ”
    I’d never heard of it in a film context, but both talk about it being extended or an expansion. My understanding of precis is that it is the opposite of this.

    @Geoff Smith 20A I’m not entirely clear on the wordplay either. I’m guessing that the two syllables after the L are contrary, together they make an individual (but then so is the whole word), but I don’t get the “not” at the end

  30. Monica, just realised I asked about 12A ages ago, have figured out since then. When I said I didn’t have any trouble, I meant I don’t have any trouble with the clue (now that I know the answer). I have trouble with the clue in 15a as from what I can make out that doesn’t quite fit the definition, but maybe there are other uses of it not in the dictionaries I’ve seen??

  31. @nn I agree regarding 15A. I could not equate the answer with ‘film precis’ very easily. As with many of DA’s best, I see what he was trying to do but it doesn’t quite gel.
    I agree with you that the answer seems (in the film business) to be an ‘expansion’ of basic scene cards on the way to the full version. However, it may well be looked at later as a precis of the finished product but that is not what a precis is, is it?

  32. While I wait for the LTDF to start on SBS …
    10A I thought ‘vain’ was a poor synonym for the 2nd word. However, yes, it is in the Thesaurus, but … btw I think the first word’s homophone idea is good for delicious.

    1A Thanks Gayle. Crackerjack as usual. Got it now. Spent time with a jaloppy last night (there can be two Ps) to no avail.

    @Peta reference 22/7/11, 10.34am thank you! 14D finally makes sense!

    @Rupert. What’s an idle Morrish? When I Googled it, all I got was your post…

  33. My, theoretical only, understanding of a treatment is that it is an outline of a few pages that gives indications of the how the plot will be realised in practical terms. That is, how it is to be treated. This gives an indication of the financial and technical scope required, in broad terms, for the film to be made. A treatment might be presented as part of an attempt to pitch an idea. The script itself might number several hundred pages and will have detailed, specific instructions.

  34. @Monica OK, that sounds good.
    So it might be that ‘precis’ is alright for a clue (on paper) for those that know the film business. This is probably the issue I have with DA.
    How likely is it that most us us reading ‘film precis’ are thinking “aha, film precis, could be XXXXXXXXX, …?

  35. @RobT Have opened a DA ‘bullshit’ folder which I now see is required. Good suggestion. Mine has 9A in it this week, as well as 15A. Watch this space.

  36. Thanks Monica haven’t heard of that film definition, am ok with the clue if the word is used that way too. Nice to learn something new each week

  37. @ Robin “How likely is it that most us us reading ‘film precis’ are thinking “aha, film precis, could be XXXXXXXXX,” I don’t mind DA doing that sort of thing as I was able to get the word from the rest of the clue, then check the film definition in a dictionary (except all the ones I looked at defined it as an expansion in relation to film, but apparently this isn’t always the case.).

  38. @Monica I like it. You have made me realise I should go on with this! I will try to do better! :-)

  39. Thanks nn, always like your work. I think one day we’ll have someone write “The seven ages of DA” or similar. The clue in the paper, the initial panic, the managed calm, the determination to continue, (thinking here of Arthur C and the ‘stop’ incident a few weeks ago), the realisation that some clues are actually achievable by tyros (5), the inevitable decline in spirits upon seeing that RobT has finished already, the tips from Gayle and Peta, the relief that a few guesses are actually right, the appearance of newcomers on this site who are, it seems, just a little behind the pace… nn and Monica, I take my hat off to you both.

  40. Love it Robin! Perhaps we could also add at the start of your list “the impatience of Melbournites who have to wait until saturday with the realisation that RobT, Rupert etc have finished before we’ve even read the first clue!”

  41. Thanks, Robin. We are a little behind the pace, and we are impatient, but we do what we can :)

  42. Agree nn us Mexicans do wish we could have “DA” back on a friday. Where’s Arthur C?

  43. Not so sure I want it on friday, would be even more frustrating to know it is there but I can’t get to it because I’m at work. (Unlike others I have a car trip instead of the train each morning so can’t do it on the way either)

  44. Well, I filled in all the squaresyesterday, tomorrow will tell me if I had the right answers. but if I did, I don’t understand how the clue fitted those answers (or vice versa). I wonder if one of the more erudite Trippers could explain, if I post some queries tomorrow, how that clue fitted that answer. Would be most helpful. Ta.

  45. Late as usual! I know there have been references to 14D but I still don’t get it. Is this a person?
    I have the same trouble with 1D and the link with 4D. I wouldn’t like DA back to Friday. I ‘d never get anywhere!

  46. I owe all you great enlighteners an apology for barging in sometime ago. I find I didn’t hit the send button when I asked to come in. Put it down to ineptness of age; I can given Arthur a few if he’d like them. A question- I find I can generally get the sense of the word play but synonyms simmer below the surface and refuse to bubble up, very frustrating. Anyone else find the same? Still six to go this week so must apply myself to all those earlier comments.

  47. Conny, 14d – not a person, but a character, although there is an individual involved.

  48. Conny: 14D 2 letter abb for transport system + 2 letter abb for old woman and all this included in a 6 letter word for individual = legal character
    1D Get + anagram for 4D = swordsman on horseback – think Sydney Harbour Bridge

  49. Thanks Monica and Bernie. Just come in from pressure hosing all the moss off my brick pavements so I don’t feel very much like the old woman in 14D even though I am 70yo

  50. Oh no I remember him well!! Thought I don’t think you have to be an old woman to be a M-!
    I am still foxed by 13D. I think that the ITSLAMB is anagrammed but I can’t work out the rest. I have a B and an A at the end and I guess it’s some sort of veal dish but cooking isn’t really my thing.
    I am puzzled by the word that comes in 4D. I an see the funstion and the working but I don’t get where “opening” and ‘Interminable” operate!
    I am also foxed by 26A. It looks like part of the word BIRDSONG but, if it is, it’s a word I don’t know.
    27A I can see the word and the duck tail but I can’t see how being soaked fits in.
    And finally, I have a word fitted in for 28A but I can’t see where the tycoon and the anon maid come into it!!
    Apart from them i anm OK!!!

  51. Conny, in 28a the maid has no identification. She ends up a dead ringer for the old lady in 17d. Tycoon is the definition. The final of seen is inserted into a suffix used for every scandal since Nixon.

  52. @Connie
    13A is an anagram of itslamb followed by something that sounds like a slang word for true blue Australian. It is a veal dish (I hadn’t heard of it either).
    4D the function of the answer is to open (and close). A function also describes the first two letters. The last two letters are work without the w and k, I think that somehow DA is using interminable to mean without the terminals????
    26A is a word describing a noise that a bird makes, (think pigeon). It is also a word for a type of wading bird but missing the last letter.
    27A the first two letters and the last two provide the soaking

  53. @Monica: Sorry for the late reply. I’ve been busy building a kitchen cabinet (and since my wife refuses to pay for plastic-covered cardboard, it’s been taking a while).

    I am an idle Morrish when swimming among the Moorish Idols, because (a) I am on holiday, and (b) that is my surname.

  54. What the heck is 21d, I think it is something meaning Shrill (and the wordplay is a kind of monster missing the letter I) or a monster (shrill without I), I am lost with this one, and have some awful letters so I probably got 20Am 24A or 27A wrong too!

  55. Chris, sounds like … “what the heck”. Find a synonym for SHRILL and from that remove the ‘I’. You are so close.

  56. @Rupert, thanks for the explanation! Would never have got your surname from 10A.

    I think this has been avery good week for D A Tripping. I think I have more word play explanations at this stage thanks to everyone than I usually have.

    Thanks nn for 13A. I had never heard of the dish either.

    As for 4D, the first word is the definition isn’t it? Interminable = ‘endless’ therefore WORK = OR.

    26A I had the answer but for some reason I had someone calling COO-EE shortened. Wrong again…

  57. 14D Musical interlude as it’s Sunday Night …http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paAIbMKb7eY

    I was my youngest son’s age when this last screened as a new episode.

    You have got to wonder how DA decided on this clue. Browsing in a book exchange under authors A-G? Turning out a drawer of old vinyl 12″ records and finding ‘Popular TV Themes of the 60’s’? Looking for a lawyer who would always take on a nearly hopeless defence case using an out of date Yellow Pages?

  58. @RuthB I am the same in respect of synonyms. I am amazed at the skills of several regulars here who are brilliant at getting the synonyms. I can see that it does come with practice but DA is challenging. Again this week I finished all five other crosswords with little help and was short by 3 answers only out of 150 or so. It is only DA who stumps me.

  59. Well, I had all the letters in the right plce! But I still don’t fully understand the Perry Mason answer, although it was the second answer I wrote in, after releasing (18A). I eventually saw the person on the outside, but the RYMA in between? Old Woman? Anagram of Mary? The rest, ultimately, made sense. Guess, at 82, I am a bit slow. Best wishes for next bout (week).

  60. Arthur, I’m 88 and hav e heard of the veal dish , which also means an acrobat of some sort! And 2
    d is a french version of prestidigitation

  61. Thanks Robin fot the Ray Conniff version . We were the last house in the street to get TV but dinner and washing up soon had to br planned around this show.

  62. Arthur, I like your version of PERRYMASON as in PER+(MARY= RYMA)+SON quite a bit but it won’t delight too many Marys :-) People here think it’s PER+(tracks=RailwaY=RY)+(old woman=MA)+SON. Makes sense to me.

    There have been some great explanations this week but can anyone help with 22A. I have (Polish ending=SKI)+(???=BOB). Any ideas? Dock=cut=hair cut=bob? No?

    Gayle I like the Ray Conniff recording too. Amazing how music brings back a whole period of your life if you haven’t heard a familiar piece for a very long time.

  63. Right! It is PERSON, within which is RY (railway), + MA, (my ‘old woman’),as you say above, Robin. Took me a long time to see it that way. And, Ruth B, I dips me lid! I got legerdemain quite early, a word I last heard/saw several decades back. As to the saltimbocca thing, had never heard of it. Cryptics as a way of educating the masses!

  64. 22A: Yes, Dock = BOB as they both mean to cut a horse’s tail. A skibob is apparently a bicycle frame with skis, and not, as I had assumed, a brand of snowmobile.

  65. Thanks JK and Rupert. It seems DA’s idée fixe has gone from nether regions to haircuts. We had all that banter three weeks ago with the BANGTAILS didn’t we?

    At my first glance at at 22A I had SKIDOO to go with COO lower down. I see, though, that that is a brand name in the USA for a ski-bob and is ‘Ski-Doo’.

  66. Robin, I too got caught with Skidoo, made a right mess of the connecting words.
    Ruth B I think the acrobats are Saltimbanco, the name of one of the cirque de soleil touring shows. I can’t find Saltimbocca referring to acrobats, but as I’d never heard of the word until saturday, I’m quite prepared to be corrected on this!

  67. I had Skidoo, too. Glad to see I wasn’t the only one. I hadn’t remembered it was hyphenated – as I mentioned before I married into a Polaris family ;)

  68. Thanks, Arthur. I’ll really earn your lid-dipping when I apply for membership of the pool room!

  69. Monica, Robin et al. re 15a
    Just found definition of film related “treatment” on Wikipedia which dosn’t seem to justify precis as part of the clue. Still, I’ve learnt something- as usual.

  70. Hi Guys,

    Just wondering if there was a final concensus on glass for rolling drunks=tumbler?

    Thanks.

    Grant

  71. Re 5A TUMBLER. I don’t think it’s a double def (there would be a plural/singular mismatch in “rolling drunks” = tumbler). And I don’t go for the (S)TUMBLER(S) explanation either. My take on it is that it’s just a cryptic (or oblique) definition. The “?” supports this theory too (although I admit DA uses “?” very liberally).

  72. Thanks RB.

    One other question if you don’t mind: what’s the wordplay for the anonymous maid in magnate?

    Thanks,

    Grant

  73. Thanks AS.

    That would then leave an “N” required to complete magnate.

    Any ideas where that comes from?

    Thanks,

    Grant

  74. That N comes from finally seen.

    A DA hallmark is to make you think a word is part of an instruction when it’s not. In this clue’s case, seen looks like part of the instruction, when really it’s not and the in alone is sufficient as an instruction.

  75. A further thought on 5A tumbler.
    Tumbler is an anagram of Tumbrel, a type of two wheeled cart. The cart would be rolling, perhaps drunk is an anagrind???

  76. Re 5A: very interesting observation, nn. But I’m not buying it as a serious explanation. Three objections: 1) not even by DA’s standards is “rolling” a synonym for “tumbrel” (apart from anything else, the first is an adjective, the second a noun); 2) I’ll accept “drunk” as anagram indicator, but not “drunks”; 3) the word to be anagrammed is not present in the clue, so it would be an indirect anagram – once again, not even DA does this……Yet.

  77. @RB re 5A Fair enough, just a thought really trying to throw in an idea that might shed some light on a clue that seems to have a few problems. Agree that DA probably wouldn’t stoop quite so low…yet. Although he’s come close. But at least Iearnt a new word

  78. Hi RobT,

    I don’t think 5A deserves the bullshit folder.

    It works for me as a cryptic clue, even though there’s no precise wordplay to back it up.

    Unless I’m missing something essential (which is entirely possibe), my candidate for the folder is “Engine must inspire push”. Besides inspire as a synonym for spark (and push = plug at a stretch), I dom’t see how to get spark plug.

    Regards,

    Grant

  79. I don’t know how PUSH = PLUG could be possible, but ENGINE MUST = SPARK PLUG is great.

    At least that’s what I thought.

  80. I guess it depends on what sort of engine. A steam engine doesn’t need a spark plug. Which means it isn’t a “must”.

    Stig

  81. Hi AS,

    So I had missed something essential!

    Makes a lot more sense to me now you’ve pointed out the use of “must” as an “essential”.

    Also agree with Stig around steam engines (and diesel engines as well).

    Thanks & regards,

    Grant

  82. I’m happy with PUSH = PLUG. e.g you PLUG / PUSH a product when you are trying to sell it. I found this week a bit more straight forward than usual but still don’t get the wordplay for magnate.

  83. Hi Emil,

    You will see AS sorted this out for me above.

    Start with scandal = gate and insert “ma” and “n” as above.

    Regards,

    Grant

  84. Thanks Grant. Was just reading through all the other posts. Was surprised to see that the DA comes out on Saturdays for the Victorians! Atleast that gives some of us NSW newbies a chance to work through it with them with a 24hr head start ;)

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