DA Confusion for the 10/11th of June, 2011

Here comes the confusion, of which there always is each week.

Talk, disambiguate, enjoy.

152 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 10/11th of June, 2011

  1. As I mentioned over in last weeks thread, it took me a while to get 8D, but the theme is gettable from attention to clue lengths vs. grid lengths, and solving two or more of the dotted clues.

    Too many good clues to mention – and still only just over half way done.

  2. @Rupert, I need 11A to be tablespoon is to work for me , Whichever way, theres a typo in the clue unless theres a much cleverer way of reading it,

  3. tablespoon.

    I have a few to go INCLUDING 8D. I have the rule worked out but not that. This is a very good one today.

  4. I have it all out now except for 18A. 23A is uberlame unless I got it wrong in which case I am ‘for it’ with 18A.

    Can someone give a cryptic hint for 18A please?

  5. @RobT: agree on 23A being as lame as a snail with a limp. Particularly since there’s a word that fits all the cross letters that works *better* in its use in 18A.

    Not entirely happy with 18A, either, as the part acted on by 23A is not “record” but “schedule”. Tenses matter!

    18A: Madman got it up in two hundred.

  6. 11A: I think @David H is reading this as “withdrawn in”, and @RobT and I are reading it as the more DA-ish “withdraw-n”, with “in” being the link word. So @David H is missing “is”, and @RobT and I are missing just an “s”.

    Either way, the clue is incorrect as printed.

  7. Overall: this is a good puzzle with an ingenious theme. Slightly easier than a usual DA, I think, because of the amount of help you get once you twig the theme.

    13A , 14D and 26D were my favourites. 20A was good, too, once I realised it wasn’t about Posh (that was a sensational false surface, if intentional). 24A caught me out despite a similar trick last week.

  8. @ Rupert 11A: I agree. Clever is it had have been correct. I am sure I have seen Sebastopol in another DA so that helped.
    18A: I much prefer your clue. I still don’t get his. I see the ‘rota’ but am otherwise none the wiser. ‘Crazy’ I get…the rest is just bamboozling.

  9. 23A: What am I missing? It looks like a single definition of a term used in a single activity.

  10. 18A: The answer is words 2 and 3 of the clue with the sort-of-synonym of “record” removed.

  11. 11A: DA wouldn’t be using ‘faulty’ as a double indicator, would he? He’d need to mark that in some way, I’d imagine.

  12. 11A: @Gayle, I don’t think so. I don’t see how faulty can be read to indicate adding an S to the fodder, even if it were double duty.

  13. 11A: I’d reckon he’s put an “adds” in there somewhere. It’s surely a stuff-up but he’s not RC there – he’s DA.

  14. Really funny. Love the double theme – a word and its anagram, both meaning pretty much the same thing in the sense of 18D and the ‘unusal markings’. And the jokes in 4A and 17D.

  15. Interesting that 8Ds were replaced by what’s now known in the biz by yet another anagram of the theme.

  16. For a while there I was thinking 26D had a “dead” in it but took my Sydney hat off and saw the answer.

  17. RobT – you’re not referring to Melburnians are you? : ) You’ll be in trouble tomorrow.
    Last one of their particular form of travel I saw was floating in the sky!

  18. With over forty years of doing cryptic crosswords behind me this was a new one for me. What a nice surprise.
    I found it enjoyable although it ended up being pretty easy with all the partial answers supplied by DA (once the theme was cracked) and 8d being pretty easy to solve.

  19. Nice puzzle–challenging but not impossible.. There are a couple of things I don’t get: in 10A I see the pub, but where does the golf fit in? 29A was very nice.

    I found the missing dots long before getting 8D, so 8D didn’t really prove crucial. as is the case with some of DA’s puzzles.
    Agree that 11A wordplay is missing something (or is it very, very subtle). 23A doen’t really belong in a DA puzzle.

  20. GeoffS, 10A: don’t get the wordplay either. Can see anagram of two words, ie a letter and a four letter word commonly used with golf. But haven’t got ‘after’ . Or is it a joke? I was thinking of the 19th _ _ _ _ for a while but it didn’t work out.

  21. Only 13A to go, assuming I’ve got 4D right.
    As Rupert said he liked it, I’m guessing there’s something interesting in there. A teensy clue?

  22. Gayle and GeoffS
    For 10a, think of the “radio alphabet”

    Dance before golf (7) is Foxtrot

  23. Having decided this week to make a solo effort (promised myself not to look at The DA Trippers all day!) I see a puzzle studded with large black dots! Furthermore there were not enough squares for the answers!

    However, I managed to work out what was going on and after doing 25A and realising this gave me 30A and many of the others, I now have only two to go. 2D and 13A. I have caught up with the day’s observations above but still have these two not done. Hints welcome!

    Best line so far today was at 1.38pm from RobT. Look out Melbourne…

  24. 2D: Drug baron is the definition. Either you’ve heard of him or you haven’t.
    13A: This is a corker. Every word counts.

  25. Thanks Rupert, I thought of the word for the drug lord earlier because of the cross clues but couldn’t quite place it – thought I was missing something. I’ve got him written in now.

    By the way I thought your tip for 18A was better than DA’s!

  26. Having just looked at the puzzle, my first instinct is to rip it to bits with the ballpoint, and have a happy weekend. DA did something like this once before, when the answers had to be written backwards. Haven’t a clue what 8D is, so if that is the key, why bother trying further? Can anyone help with a clue to 8D?

  27. ArthurC – hang in there, it’s actually one of the easier ones, and a bit of fun, once you’ve got the pattern which you can get by counting the numbers of letters in the solution and the number of squares available on the grid for that answer. Then look at what’s missing.

    8D is not essential to cracking it but once you’ve done a couple you’ll see the connection. 8D is two words reversed: female character (5 letters) in a fairly popular animated show + 3 letter word for permitted

  28. Ta, Gayle, have never watched that animated show, but have heard of the ‘substitute spread’ woman. So, I now have 8D. Onward ever onward. Forthose who were enquiring, Mrs C is in rehab, possibly coming home next week. Broken hip not good for an 81 yo.

  29. started my DA over breakfast, got 6d straight away, went to put it in and too many letters!
    Then noticed black dots, cup of coffee starting to have effect, eyes opening, read the instructions (should have done that first!). Go through all the black dots, each of them has 3 fewer letters than needed. Good, I’m on to something there. Look at 8D, no idea what he is on about. 7D is obvious, put that in. Gives me a letter in 4A, which is also a letter in my answer to 6D. Put my 6D answer with various combinations of missing letters into the spot for 4A (coffee obviously not working yet). This gives me a possible letter for the start of 8D. Mess around with that for quite some time. Work out 25A, has some letters the same as 6D. Black dot is on the same letter and same three letters follow. Am really on to something now. With hints above that 11A has an error, I get that in too. So have the theme. Go back to 8D and try to find a word beginning with K that tells me to get rid of the appropriate 3 letters. No luck. Mess around with this for about half an hour before I realise I’ve put my 6D answer in the spot for 4A. Coffee finally starting to work now I’m into my second cup!
    Put 6D into 6D, look at 4A and get this. Put it in. Try 8D again, this time with what I hope is the correct letter. Still none the wiser despite all the above hints!
    But at least I have the theme so will persist with the rest.

  30. @nn: if you’ve twigged the theme, then 8D is a place just like this crossword, where dots are replaced by .

  31. thanks Rupert, from other hints it has something to do with a show. I’m betting I haven’t watched it (and may not have even heard of it!). Your hint may be more help, I will continue to ponder!

  32. 2D if the drug baron is the one I’m thinking of (the one with the infamous wig), I don’t think the spelling is correct. If not him then I’m lost on 2D

  33. Got the right drug baron this time.
    Six to go and don’t get the wordplay on some of the others but have done fairly well today by my standards.

  34. Think I’ve got them all now
    14D not keen on squash as an anagram indicator
    Like the theme, favourites were 29A, 21D and 22D

  35. I am still stumped by 13A’s wordplay I’m afraid. I have the answer but the clues above haven’t quite got me there on why it is that.

  36. My clues wouldn’t be much help, as AS’ blogging software eats < and >.

    What I meant to say was 8D is a place just like this crossword, where dots are replaced by <theme>.

  37. 2D: I don’t know anything about his wig, but at one point he was the 7th richest man in the world. Wikipedia has the same spelling of his name as DA.

  38. 16D (I think this is what @nn means, not 14D): I’m OK with squashed as an anagrind. Better than 23A as a deletion signpost.

  39. Rupert, 18 A: Agree with your comment that tenses matter and “23-across ” is in the wrong tense to use as an instruction. Would it work if the word order of “23-across record” was reversed? It would, grammatically, but is that an acceptable deletion clue? I’ve only seen them in the imperative.

  40. Rupert 2D I was thinking of Mokbel, I got the right one later, spelling is correct
    Yes I did mean 16D not 14D, but squash means to compress, shorten or contract, not rearrange.
    23A as a deletion isn’t great either but at least is suggests something broken, therefore you can’t use that bit any more. Like the rest of you I don’t think much of 23A as a clue for 23A either unless I’m missing something.

  41. I have three to go (11A, 13A and 4D), but despite getting 3D with the help of the themed clue, I can’t figure out its wordplay. Can anyone explain 3D please? Also, 11A looks like it should be an anagram of tablespoon, or at least missing an “n” due to withdrawn, but I have an extra “s” from the down clues. Help please

  42. Any hints to 22D, 28A or 30A please? If 28A includes a coin, I don’t get the wordplay.

  43. Feather, for 22D I know the word (which is the answer) from seeing it as the name for a little box on a map or a plan which tells me what the symbols on the map or plan mean. DA has made a joke because it also describes where your foot is found on your body, at the end of something?

  44. Feather, 28A? This is a phrase using the ‘unusual grid marking’ which I trust you have worked out? Stop me if you have.
    The answer must be an American phrase and I have never heard it anywhere. The answer is the big DA dot plus the letters from words 4 and 5 of the clue. Does that help?

  45. 28A (cont)! Yes, it includes a coin. We’d use ‘sixpence’ wouldn’t we?

    30A, well you have to know the name of someone whose name starts with a DA dot.
    I’m sure you’ll know the name as there are really not that many playwrights that DA would use, surely? (I’m guessing).
    The answer wrote a famous play based on two characters from a Shakespeare play. He is knighted by ER but he was not born in Britain.
    Any good?

  46. Many thanks, Robin. That finishes it for me. I feel a bit foolish about 22D, duh! 28A, have heard the expression but didn’t see the anagram – I wasn’t including the ‘s’ as I had confused the ‘halts’ in the clue with the ‘s’ in the answer (and therefore hadn’t worked out the station part. Ashamed to admit I hadn’t heard of 30A, I will educate myself now via wikipedia.

  47. Great, a completed DA is a Good DA…
    I was amused when you said “Duh!” This is because when I got 8D yesterday I said “DOH!”
    Only meaningful if you’ve watched the animated TV show which has aired over 486 episodes all around the world. Isn’t it wonderful how some folks lives still never cross paths with such distribution?

  48. @David S: 11A is a typo, should be tablespoons.
    3D: Double definition: Wedge; and an issue politicians use to get a foot in the door.

  49. 28A: Yes, a common American phrase. Since the coin is exclusively (as far as I know) American, I imagine any references to the phrase in other colonies are due to cultural contamination from the USA ;)

  50. David S,
    Rupert helped me with 13A as above but I reckon it’s one of the weaker ones this week. It doesn’t have too many mentions or votes on this page I notice. Either that or I still haven’t got it!

  51. Did anyone think that DA missed a fairly topical one this week, as in a down clue such as:
    “Way and weigh up (I hear) hold a choice man and serpent, promise (4, 3, 5)?”
    The grid would have a big dot followed by 8 squares.
    Sorry!

  52. Sorry, Robin, I’m stuck on the last word. I can’t think of anything topical that has this beginning.

  53. Not so topical perhaps. Should I insert the word Liberal before promise and date the clue 2010? Any good?!

  54. Robin, clever clue but I don’t think “weigh up” can be used in that sense, as I think audibles usually refer to a “sounds like” in the answer, not part of the clue. Maybe “two-way street” instead?

  55. Fun this week. Got the theme early (and loved 8D anyway), but had real trouble with some of the non-themed clues. Still don’t get the ‘advertising dodge’ part of 4D. I’m assuming it’s a seven letter word which surrounds the letter ‘C’ to make the eight letter word meaning (roughly) ‘avert’. It would seem to me that some kind of musical reference would have fitted, or am I on the wrong track, thus precluding any chance of a correct answer?

  56. Ahhh! Thanks JD. Assuming all advertising to be dodgy, I hadn’t thought to split the two words.

  57. Ha! I suspect by the frequency of his/her posts ‘nn’ had more than the 2 coffees,, and perhaps crossed over into Escobar territory.
    Well done all.

  58. RobT, yes was well into my 3rd coffee by the time I got it all out yesterday! Have had a week of much reduced sleep.
    But I steer clear of Escobar territory…

  59. 8D: Famous animated character with yellow skin and towering blue hair + synonym for allowed, the whole reversed.

    29A: (1) Diarrhoea is also followers of a Russian revolutionary, head of the Red Army, murdered with an ice pick; (2) Chinese vegetarian is black and white and eats bamboo; (3) way is an abbreviation you may see on a road sign. (3) goes inside (2); (2&3) goes inside (1), reversed.

  60. This week’s ceased to be a cryptic crossword for me. I gave it my best – added up the letters and spaces given, worked out a few clues and tried to manipulate them to fit, read all of your comments etc. I even went to the solution at ACC. But the point of it is still elusive, and I can’t see what I’m meant to do with the answers.
    It’s Monday – if anyone wants to enlighten me please use direct language.

  61. Joe, when telegraphers dictated a wire or telegram (8D) they used the word “stop” to punctuate or give clarity to the abbreviated message. eg SAW ELVIS DEAD (STOP) TIRED as opposed to SAW ELVIS (STOP) DEAD TIRED
    In text that would be SAW ELVIS DEAD. TIRED and SAW ELVIS. DEAD TIRED
    The word ‘stop’ in the dictation is replaced by ‘dots’ in the text.
    Or the other way round, the ‘dot’ in the text is represented by the word ‘stop’ which is the key to this week’s DA.
    Does that make sense?

  62. I grew up in the telegram era but I just learnt something from a site on Western Union:

    Telegrams reached their peak popularity in the 1920s and 1930s when it was cheaper to send a telegram than to place a long-distance telephone call. People would save money by using the word “stop” instead of periods to end sentences because punctuation was extra while the four character word was free.

  63. Not fair! I obeyed my initial instinct after entering two answers, and ripped the puzzle to bits with the ballpoint. Never occurred to me the dots represented STOP. Telegram service stopped in this country before 1990:
    Gayle’s info above is very interesting.
    Ah well, there’s always next week.

  64. Make sure you read the letters to the editor on DA in the Age this Monday (13th).
    Will cause a chuckle.
    Maybe not by the editor when someone points it out!
    Enjoy!

  65. GH I saw that letter, took me a few seconds to work out it was cryptic and then laughed my head off. Still wondering if the editor spotted it. Suspect DA will be having a good laugh too. Pity he’s already written his book, I’m sure that would have earned a spot in it.

  66. GH and nn got me intrigued and found it online. For the non Victorians have copied below, although am loath to reproduce the second one… and submitted by a woman, or is her name cryptic too? It will go down in DA history .. and never get into any edition of his book, so for that reason alone. ….
    Is this the new Cockney.. a subversive language that only other cruciverbalists can understand? On that topic, finished DA early this week, rainy long weekend, watched a movie on Foxtel … “All about Steve”. The synopsis didn’t mention anything about cruciverbalists, but it was all about one (not Steve). Has anyone seen it? Good fun.

    From Letters, The Age, Mon June 13. 2011:
    Crossword
    DEAR DA stop great fun stop many thanks stop RW.

    Robyn Whittle, Brighton East

    DA (the loveless count) must be stopped.

    Valerie Seal, Fitzroy North

  67. “Valerie Seal, Fitzroy North” is an anagram of “Realization Fever Shortly”, something The Age editor may encounter?
    Or perhaps “Lavatory Fertilizer Shone” or “Re Filthier Lavatory Zones”

  68. Talking about racehorse names there’s a good mare running in Melbourne called La Praline. If she’d been called Praline there’d be no problem, that’s now an English term. But the ‘LA’ means it’s French and in French slang well …… it translates to a female body part that rhymes with Delores. (Hello Seinfeld fans)

  69. While we’re in this territory, there was an article in the sport’s pages of the Age quite a while ago, about someone who proposed to his girlfriend with a sky writer (I think that’s what it was about) and described the action as a cupid stunt. My crossword brain frazzled. Do editors not do cryptic crosswords?

  70. JD,

    “Cunning stunts” has been a slang-like phrase/ ‘innuendo’ for years.

    Greg,

    The NATO phonetic alphabet, also known as the ICAO phonetic alphabet, ITU phonetic alphabet, NATO spelling alphabet, ICAO spelling alphabet or the international radiotelephony spelling alphabet, is the most widely used spelling alphabet. Though often called “phonetic alphabets”, spelling alphabets do not have any association with phonetic transcription systems like the International Phonetic Alphabet. Instead, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) alphabet assigns code words to the letters of the English alphabet acrophonically (Alfa for A, Bravo for B, etc.) so that critical combinations of letters (and numbers) can be pronounced and understood by those who transmit and receive voice messages by radio or telephone regardless of their native language, especially when navigation or persons might be endangered due to transmission static.

    Letters
    Letter Code word Pronunciation
    US Army[6] ITU[7] ICAO[8] ICAO (IPA) Consolidated transcription
    A Alfa (ICAO, ITU, IMO, FAA)
    Alpha (ANSI, FAA) AL fah AL FAH ALFAH ˈælfɑ /ˈælfɑː/ al-fah
    B Bravo BRAH voh BRAH VOH BRAHVOH ˈbrɑːˈvo /ˈbrɑːvoʊ/ brah-voh or /ˌbrɑːˈvoʊ/ brah-voh
    C Charlie CHAR lee CHAR LEE or
    SHAR LEE CHARLEE ˈtʃɑːli or
    ˈʃɑːli /ˈtʃɑrliː/ char-lee or /ˈtʃɑːliː/ chah-lee
    /ˈʃɑrliː/ shar-lee or /ˈʃɑːliː/ shah-lee
    D Delta DEL tah DELL TAH DELLTAH ˈdeltɑ /ˈdɛltɑː/ del-tah
    E Echo EKK oh ECK OH ECKOH ˈeko /ˈɛkoʊ/ ek-oh
    F Foxtrot FOKS trot FOKS TROT FOKSTROT ˈfɔkstrɔt /ˈfɔːkstrɔːt/ fawks-trawt
    G Golf Golf GOLF GOLF ɡʌlf [sic] /ˈɡɔːlf/ gawlf or /ˈɡʌlf/ gulf
    H Hotel HO tell HOH TELL HOHTELL hoːˈtel /hoʊˈtɛl/ hoh-tel or (?) /ˈhoʊtɛl/ hoh-tel[9]
    I India IN dee ah IN DEE AH INDEE AH ˈindiˑɑ /ˈɪndiːɑː/ in-dee-ah

  71. The rest from (incomplete, and probably inaccurate) memory:

    Juliet Kilo Lima M
    N
    Oscar Papa Q
    Romeo Sierra Tango Unicorn Violet Whisky Xray Yankee Zulu

    My Dad had a sadists phonetic alphabet, that started with Aesop, and included words like Czar and Djinn.

  72. Getting back to the cryptic letter, one also remembers the old joke about the politician, who is a country member. How could we forget?

  73. Thanks Robin, Dg et al
    First time I’ve noticed a clue of this kind – would not have got it.

  74. A fun puzzle. My Brazilian GF was somewhat shocked to read the answer to 4a, which read quite differently to her – PUTA – TOIT.

    AS, you will be astonished to hear that I missed both 7d OSTRICH and 19d CHAGRIN, hidden word clues – your achilles heel. I trust you got them?

  75. My Uruguayan girlfriend saw exactly the same PUTA.

    Yep, got those hidden ones, RC. Those clues have been an achilles heel for so long I actively look for them pretty much in each clue I do.

  76. Hi, Could someone help me understand the wordplay for (Tom) Stoppard in the last across clue. Really struggling. Thanks & regards, Grant

  77. Hi Rob, I don’t have it to hand, but it was something like: “Playwright goes from sublime to so-so in Surround Sound*”
    *Surriound Sound in italics

  78. Sublime = TOP
    So-so = PAR
    Surround S[oun]d = S & D

    In = within
    No reason I can see for italics other than DA’s silly buggers.

  79. Thanks Guys.
    Also, for the “gritty musical” clue, am I correct in assuming Tier A is broken down into:
    Tie=rope
    + ra
    To give rock opera?

    I’m new to cryptics and hadn’t thought about breaking words into pieces like this before.

  80. Grant
    9 A Lock ends off in Tier A for gritty musical? 4,5
    ‘tier’ is ROPER, someone or something who/which ties. There was a similar clue recently where part of the solution was I think ‘lacer’, which Rupert explained, so I was awake this time.
    Wordplay, take the ends of lock > OCK and insert in R………… OPER + A

  81. Gayle,
    I should have added I feel much better about the whole word “tier” being exchanged for “roper”. Otherwise to break up words into pieces would seriously do my head in! DAs crosswords do enough damage as it is!

  82. Grant, People on this site often refer to that as flower/flower kind of clue for the different ways of reading the word/s. Although in the flower example it may be an indication to think of a river. But DA is usually trickier than that. They’re something to look out for.

  83. In another recent one, part of the clue was tower and the answer was a bullock team, from memory.

  84. Funny that the old “Tower/Tower” has come up today , its also residing in 24D in todays SMH

  85. Thanks Gayle.
    There was another that I couldn’t get – the one starting with “Animated matriarch”.
    Any clues there?
    Regards,
    Grant

  86. Think of a cartoon mum. Upside down it’s the last 5 letters of the 8-letter answer.

  87. Hi RobT, Looks like I’m gonna be a DA tragic for a bit longer. Surgeon today says surgery ..
    tha ? wing?

  88. Grant
    8D was the reference to the grid’s unusal markings, ie the dots and the substituted ‘stop’
    Animated matriarch permitted to scale wire (8)
    The definition is wire. Scale is the indicator to reverse, and as it’s a down clue, that means to go up the grid.
    Animated matriarch is MARGE from the Simpsons. Permitted is LET
    reverse the two words> TELEGRAM

  89. DavidH , funny also that I took DA”s “Puzzled” to while the time while waiting to see my ‘wing’ surgeon and several of last weekend’s clues almost came off the first page I read.

  90. Gayle I think RobT means thawing = office = off ice (two words) Has taken me an hour to work out what he was on about, hope I’m right!
    Back to the loveless count, I once played in a cricket team called cunning stunts, there was a team of pheasant pluckers in the same comp, but the best I heard was a team from a university language department who called themselves the cunning linguists.

  91. Sorry to read about your wing. I had a shoulder reconstruction and wouldn’t have done it had I known about the pain.

  92. @Gayle, hopefully not the arm you write crossword answers with?

    Best wishes for a smooth operation (by Sade?) and a speedy recovery.

  93. Thanks RobT – you’ll have my sympathies too retrospectively .. to be sure.
    And thanks Rupert. I am dextral, but don’t think I’m going to be very dextrous with my arm immobilised. Maybe an online version with voice recognition? I found crossword sites recently for blind people. .. amazing.
    You got me there with Sade for a second … thinking it might be a reference to your father’s Sadists’ alphabet! (soothing melody, thanks)
    And TGIF – tomorrow!

  94. @ N.N re. letters 13/06/11 – Are you implying that the word (the loveless count) is associated with filth and lavatories? @ Gayle – Why should you be more loathe to reproduce the letter because it was ‘sent by a woman.’ Does that mean it’s less offensive for men to use the word? People get called ‘pricks’ too.

  95. Or, Gayle, would you expect women to have more finely honed sensibilities, to be more ‘politically correct’??

  96. abcd efgh, if you don’t get the nuances you are on the wrong forum.
    Take your ill intentions elsewhere. No further correspondence will be entered into.

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