DA Confusion for the 29/30th of April, 2011

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88 thoughts on “DA Confusion for the 29/30th of April, 2011

  1. Fairly smooth sailing this week. Although I initially thought this cross-referenced one might have been better on the long weekend.

  2. DA is winding us up this week, right?

    I have going to have to add a list of models to the list of Victorian Premiers I keep on hand to solve DA. At least last week I’d heard of Kate Moss. No idea who this week’s model is. I’d not heard of the Shakespearean, either.

    Can someone explain the wordplay in 7D? I thought there may be an alternative definition of TYRO that would fit “monitor”, but I can’t find one.

    21D was an unusal (for me) case where I had to cross out an answer. I was sure ensemble company was REP. 14A had delightfully DA-ey wordplay.

    Oh, and as a nerd, I object to 10A!

  3. 7D: get rid of the two letters that means “a second”.

    But can you explain the wordplay in 26A?

    Also 23A needed some googling to check.

  4. Pretty smooth sailing for me too Gayle. After I figured out 9D that is. I always like using the word in 28A!!

  5. I must have a different 23A to you, because I don’t think google would help. I have it as a word within European that is something that is often 27A.

    26A, if I have it right, is a word expressing a sense of bad luck, followed by an ancient egyptian soul (is this a state of being?), with the whole being a very large US state.

    Thanks on 7. I get it now.

  6. RobT, I think 23A is ROPE. I really hope you’ve heard of it.

    26A The last two letters of my answer aren’t a US state. Unless they’re reversed, and then they’re an abbreviation for the whole answer.

  7. 26 A – sorry Rupert, you are right. DA doesnt mention that the state code is reversed. Its not Kansas.

  8. 23A My reading of it is the same as Gayle’s – “European island” is the cryptic part indicating a hidden word within european. The Rope Island you linked to looks like fun, though I’m pretty sure they weren’t there the last time I was in Cologne (which was about 1983), and I don’t think they have anything to do with this clue.

    26A: I have A_A_K_, and think the answer is ALASKA. The only US states whose 2-letter abbreviation begins with K are Kentucky (KY) and Kansas (KS), and I can’t think of any words matching A_A_KY or A_A_KS.

  9. 23A Agreed.

    26A. I am sure DA stuffed up. It is clearly KA. I assumed Kansas was abbreviated that way so I would not be surprised if DA was too (imo).

  10. Alaska code is AK. So it is reversed in the answer. Alas (worst luck) then KA (alaska backwards)

  11. Robyn…I would agree with you but there is no indication to reverse AK.

    Either way, he’s stuffed up.

  12. US Postal Service says it’s KS: http://zip4.usps.com/zip4/zcl_0_landing_state.htm

    Also, if there’s a missing reversal indicator, it’s also misleading to use “another”, since it’s the same state.

    There’s really not an excuse for DA getting this wrong, since KansaS follows the same pattern as VirginiA and GeorgiA, which he used last week in VAGABOND. One for DA Errors, I think.

  13. Rupert…perhaps he was thinking of Alabama (AL) or Arkansas (AR). I know I wasn’t.

  14. I meant to ask about 16D, before we got hung up on state codes.

    It’s generally considered OK to run words together. Is it also OK to run numbers together, like this? If not, is it DA who has broken the rules or the typesetter?

  15. Woah woah woah. I think 26A is ok. The cryptic part is “worst luck” = ALAS “for one state” = KA (Kansas), and the straight clue is “another (state)”, right? A bit unorthodox with the straight clue, but I think it’s ok.

  16. Hi there,

    No-one has mentioned it yet, so perhaps it is a pushover, but I a 13A short of completing this week’s DA.

    I’ve thought through different definitions of snake (reptile; winding path; deceitful character) without luck.

    Any assistance?

  17. Dr Pyser….makes perfect sense this week. Them Coast Guard guys would know about 9D better than most.

    I can’t help but feeling we are trying “bail” DA out, though.

  18. A bit of Googling shows that the Coast Guard Auxillary is responsible for safety on the Missouri River, and there is a Coast Guard recruiting stations in Topeka.

    I think it’s too obscure for wordplay.

  19. Drat!

    Thanks Rupert. I saw the “11” at the tail of 13A and misread it for another airy reference (which I’m sure was DA’s attention).

    Relatively new to cryptics – and this would have been the first time I’d nutted out two straight DAs. Getting the hang of them now, at any rate.

  20. Fair cop with the 9. I was just assuming ‘(something) in the 9-d’. I think DA’s taken the opportunity to be tricky and stuck them together.

  21. Stats for today’s DA:
    Solve time: 27 mins for a 28-clue themed DA (breaking the 1 min per clue barrier, first time for a themed DA!)
    Liked: Neat deletion in 10A. 17D an excellent hidden. Nacho quite clever too. Nice ana at 9D. Enjoyed the theme.
    Disliked: Not sure why mum was capitalised in 17A. Noted in 12A seems otiose. The KA issue in 26A has been noted elsewhere. Some will object to $10009 used in the way it was in 16D.
    Other: 4D reminded me of the work and bills Spoonerism…
    Rated: 7.5/10

  22. 9D obviously key to getting the rest out. Am presuming it is an anagram of first two words, only thing I can get to fit is something for measuring wind, but have no idea what this has to do with the rest of the clue, can anyone help?

  23. got it now, was thinking of current in terms of electricity or the present. Can be an air current too! (Kicking myself)

  24. @ Rupert, I’m lost on the model too! The Shakespearean isn’t a character, it is a production company.

  25. Got the model now, I had heard of her. Not overly happy with the 10009 in 9D. Using n= 9 not great and surely it is before (or above) 9D instead of in 9D?

  26. A couple of other answers that I’m having trouble understanding the wordplay.
    10A and 14A. Both have the expression 10/11 and I have no idea how this works. (I have what I hope are the correct answers, just don’t get the 10/11 bit, somehow it appears to suggest RA???)

  27. Got the rest out now (still don’t get the wordplay in 10A and 14A).
    Hadn’t heard of 15D before, but good to learn new things.
    25A,18A suffers from similar problem as 16D. The 9D is in the rest of the wordplay not the wordplay in 9D.

    Quite like 8D (although I don’t get what “12 in” has to do with it and it seems superfluous anyway)

    Thought he could have done a bit better with 14A (although I don’t quite get what he has done). Perhaps “thoughtful session about undergarment in 9D”

    liked 20A, 4D

  28. Further to discussion on 16D. Had interpreted the 1000 as Mega and the nine as n (which, if correct is a bit weak as, without some sort of indicator how do we know it is an abbreviation or first letter???) but, looking at it again the 1000 could be g for grand inside something nasty. In which case the 9 following the 1000 is probably a typo?
    Can see why the n should be IN 9D now to form the answer as it is n inside a big wind, but if that’s what is intended then it should be 1000, 9 in 9D and much of the clue is superfluous. All that’s needed is “Model 9 in 9D”, although something like “Model beginning 9 in 9D” would be better.
    I don’t think it is legitimate to string 1000 and 9 together to make 10009. This is 10 thousand and 9, if he meant one thousand and 9 it should be 1009. Was tempted to blame DA’s arts background again, but think it is more likely an editorial problem.

  29. @nn, like you I don’t see the word play for the first half of 14A.

    As for 10A, think of a word for nerd and remove “about” from it.

    For the clues referring to 9D, look it up in Wikipedia and find the numbers mentioned, all should be clear as to why there is a 9 in 16D, a 12 in 8D and 10/11 in 10A and 14A.

    I thought it was OK to string 1000 and 9 together, done regularly with words so why not with numbers?

    @Rupert, thanks for your explanation of 23A, I couldn’t find it on Google maps and now I know why!

  30. @nn Go and look at a listing of the answer to 9D (wikipedia has one + other sites). Your questions about 10/11 and the use of 9 are answered immediately.

  31. mrigeoy – you beat me to explanation for nn.
    As for 14A, “brings” minus cliques = b.
    I initially jumped to the answer and tried to make an “a” appear and “g” and “s” disappear, without success.

  32. Thanks Peta and HK. I thought only the last half of 14A referred to 9D, but it was almost all of it! Now it makes sense although I will suggest DA is incorrect in this clue. 9D is all about wind, not rain.

  33. thanks mrigeoy and others for the explanation of the numbers. mrigeoy in 14A I get the b at the start, brings take away rings (= cliques) it was the next 4 letters that had me stumped. Presumed somehow that 10/11 = RA followed by IN, but makes more sense now I know what the numbers mean! Like you, I think the addition of rain doesn’t quite fit the wind, hence my problem with this one.

    Am still wondering what people think is the correct interpretation of 16D. The whole thing is a 9 type of 9D but with an extra n(and where does this n come from?), or it is mean with a G in it followed by a wind. I think the latter makes more sense, but then the clue should be …$1000 and 9 in 9D. If you really want to string 1000 and 9 together it should be 1009, not 10009. 1009 is read as one thousand AND nine, which gives the first word AND the second word. 10009 is read as ten thousand and 9 and doesn’t make sense.

  34. mrigeoy I agree with you on 14A. The wordplay threw me there because of the ‘with’ followed by 10/11 in 9 D” . As you say only the second half is relevant.

    16D agree with comments above – don’t see the justification for running the $1000 and 9 together, except to make it a little less easy to solve.

    Liked 20 A, 28 A, 27 A, 5A, 11 A for the surface reading.

  35. It’s the bit you said in the middle nn.
    nasty with a G in the middle. Followed by 9 on the 9D.

  36. @Gayle, I think your suggested justification for running the 1000 and the 9 together is spot on! I’m sure DA must look at his clues and think to himself “How can I make this harder to solve for those troublemakers at DA Trippers?”

    Also, I read 16D exactly as Gayle has described it.

    Not sure that I agree with you nn about 1009 being better than 10009. From my reading they are meant to be read as “1000” and “9”, separate parts of the clue that are printed together. A similar clue using words would be unfair if a letter was dropped. eg/ I wouldn’t expect “his” and “story” to be joined as “history”.

    When I first saw it I thought it would be a Roman numeral for 10000 (is there one?) then IX. Pretty quickly realised that wouldn’t work though!

  37. I don’t know mrigeoy – words are run together in clues and as some have said above maybe you can do it with numbers in the same way. I don’t know the rules well enough. As someone has said, it could also have been a typesetting – justification – error (sorry).

  38. Gayle, I agree that it could be done, but in this clue DA needed to produce “G” and used $1000. I don’t think in this case that $1009 could be properly interpreted as “G9” whereas $10009 can.

  39. Yep. Agree. Then G9 means something else doesn’t it, or is that G81?
    Noted that there is a ? at the end of 16D.

    I like the pocketed indicator and the model – nasty. DA seems to have something for, or maybe against models. His ecstatic Kate Moss basket case last week was a hoot.

  40. Is it just me or does the ‘A’ in 10A seem to have been indicated twice? My reading is word for nerd – word for about + 50/50 (as in whole) = 10/11 in 9D, but that gives an A in the word for nerd AND an A in the word for whole.

  41. 10 A I see as nerd = square minus the re (lost about) + LL
    I’m not sure what you mean about the a twice

  42. Christina, it should be okay now that you’ve got Rupert’s comment about the LL? (Sorry for the lag – my screen often takes ages to refresh.)

  43. Fairly easy this week, I thought, although I got quite a few words before I’d fully worked out the clues. Still stuck on 5A. Any hints?

  44. thanks everyone for comments on 16D. My feeling also that it is mean with a G in it, but then running 10009 to give G9 doesn’t make much sense either in the reading of the clue. Mean pockets G but it doesn’t pocket G9. The 9 (Gale) follows mean, it isn’t contained within it. So clue should be $1000, 9 in 9down or preferably $1000 and (or followed by) 9 in 9D as the first word has nothing to do with wind. As such if I was going with the first of these I’d write 1000 and 9 which is 1009, not 10009 which reads as ten thousand and 9.

  45. furthermore if anyone thinks you can interpret 10009 as 1000 and 9, then you could equally interpret it as 100 and 09, 10 and 009 (two better than James Bond?) or 1 and 0009. As such it gets a bit ridiculous.

  46. Gayle and mrigeoy you may be right about DA looking at clues and seeing what he can do to make them harder. If so, then in this case he has failed as I think we all got the answer without any agreement (or in my case any understanding) of what he was doing with 10009. So he didn’t make it any harder to get the answer, just harder to work out what he was on about!

  47. I think 10009 is fine, though 1009 certainly wouldn’t be. It’s common enough for large numbers to be split up, so that e.g. 1001 could indicate CI rather than MI, and I don’t see why ambiguity should be objectionable in a cryptic. And I think the running together was probably for the sake of keeping the surface reading tidy, at least as much as to make it more difficult, as “…pocket $1000 and 9…” wouldn’t make any sense at all.

  48. I just want to know how people got the answer to 27A. I think I have it, but am just a little unsure about how.

  49. @Matt: 27A is heart (= middle letters of) darkness = KN
    + extravagant = over the top = OTT
    + journo = editor = ED

    Convoluted is the definition.

  50. Thanks. That is what I eventually assumed. It ‘s that pesky OTT that sometimes gets me. :)

  51. Can someone talk me through 15D? I’ve got it, I’m just not sure why. (I know the phrase and its relation to rage, but not the first part [though I get ‘one flash’]).

  52. And yes, 16D is nasty with a grand in the centre pocket. Interpretations involving “mega” are off-target by a factor of a thousand! :-)

  53. Thanks TT!

    Yes, had the I SEC, didn’t think of A1 which would have set me up for RAN … which I probably shoulda seen in the first place :-) Ta.

    Wonder whether the clue was originally “to contain”, which woulda made it a lot easier for simpletons like me, but DA couldn’t resist the opportunity to get his Gough on?

  54. It’s a double definition: someone who pokes you on Facebook is a poker, and it’s also a card game.

    I’m not sure the first definition is accurate. I thought you could only poke people who were already your friend. With Facebook’s privacy policies changing more often than I change my socks, it’s hard to tell.

  55. Thanks Rupert. I resolved never to have anything to do with Facebook when I learnt that one of the questions Facebook asks of its members is , what is your favourite book? And, as someone remarked, if you have a favourite book, you haven’t read many books.

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