Confused with DA on the 21st/22nd Jan, 2011

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98 thoughts on “Confused with DA on the 21st/22nd Jan, 2011

  1. I loved this crossword, but have a (minor) bone to pick in relation to the key clue at 1D. I solved the wordplay but could not for the life of me see a definition, until I googled the answer and found the reference. Very obscure unless you are a Melbournian I think… Even so, I thought the definition was an anagram signpost, as there is no other obvious anagram signpost (with “capsized” referring to the preceeding words). So was the def serving a dual purpose, and if so shouldn’t we have seen a ? or !?

  2. Agree that the signposts for 1D are a bit funny, SK – maybe it just needs an extra indicator to reverse ‘old brit’. I thought the beer reference wasn’t too obscure when it became clear what the common theme for the special answers was – particularly with ones like 4D, 10A and 16D being pretty obvious.

  3. Is it: DRUNK = LIT, with OLD BRIT = CELT (anagram) and TREASURE (anagram)? So capsized is the indicator for the anagrams on both sides?

  4. I thought the old Brit was simply reversed. Either way, missing an indicator.

  5. I think you’re right, Jonathan – but wouldn’t adding something like ‘returned’ before ‘capsized’ have made it more precise?

  6. Hi – I’m trying to improve my solving skills but finding DA very difficult.
    I can see the answer to 8d but the clue indicates two words of four and eight letters, not seven and eight letters. Have I missed something?
    Also, 2d clue says two words of three and fine letters while the answer is four and five letters?
    Help please?

  7. Jonathan, I thought “old Brit capsized” was a pretty clear reversal, leaving treasure without an indicator. But even if “capsized” is the anagram signpost, i thought it was breaking the rules (?) to put fodder on both sides of the signpost.

  8. Karen – as indicated by the comment at the top, this one requires some special treatment! There are 12 clues that need to be solved using the word sizes listed, and then manipulated in a way indicated by the answer to 1d, so that they will fit into the grid. It makes it hard because you can’t always rely on the letters you already have in grid to help you get the first part of these answers.
    Suggest trying 4d, 16d, 10a and 13a to get an idea of what 1d is – or look above in Jonathan’s explanation.

  9. Karen, this one is gnarly. As the preamble suggests, 12 of the clues (including many whose letter tally does not match the number of squares) need adjustment before they fit. Suggestion…go through and mark all the clues where the letter count doesn’t match. Then try to solve some of the easier ones (like 10A,14A or 16D), don’t write them in coz they won’t fit! Then look for a common theme (if you haven’t already got 1D, which reveals the secret).

  10. @SK 1D’s not Melbournian but from Fremantle according to some samples I have here!


  11. Got it at last! Thanks for the extra clues. Looking forward to next Friday already!

  12. Have 1D and 14A, but not sure how answer to 14D fits in grid according to the theme

  13. Gosh, I am really stumped! I can’t understand the clues you have discussed above to 1D. i can see what the solutions are[sort of ] to 14A and 10A for example, except that they are too long, but because i can’t work out what 1D is i don’t know what to do with them!!

  14. 14A seems to be LLAMA but then I don’t know what to do with it make it fit in the grid (where it is 4 letters starting with C). 10A is ONE HORSE but again I don’t know how to fit it into the grid?

    I have 1D but it doesn’t tell me what to do. Please explain.

  15. Conny and RJ – You have to substitute the “creature’s” names with the names of ‘little’ versions of them. eg HORSE becomes COLT, LLAMA becomes CRIA.

  16. Could anyone please provide hints to 29A, 22D and 26D? 22D is the only “special” clue I didn’t get, although I admit to Googling CRIA and EYAS.

    I also need the wordplay explained for 1A, 31A and 18D (there seems to be an extra H).

  17. 1A – Low and Come – homophone.
    31A – GI in PEON + TOAD (homophone) makes PIGEON TOED and then the little creature for PIGEON is SQUAB.
    None of us can explain the extra H in 18D yet.

    29A: the meaning is COACH and the ex-Premier was Bob Carr.
    22D: FLU is a BUG.
    26D: the answer uses most of OVERSHOT – anagram

  18. Thanks very much GB. I still don’t know why the “old” = LIT.
    Is this solution a crewery? I have never heard of it.

  19. Conny , Drunk=Lit and the TLEC is a ‘Old Brit” reversed

    Yes its a brewery in WA – obviously there are too many wine drinkers doing crosswords (-:

  20. It’s a stretch: ‘show up’ = ‘come along’ – but not as long a bow as DA sometimes draws.

  21. Ted – for 4a, ‘split’ is a culinary verb that is also a flying insect.
    8d – what part of the cat represents the ‘cream’ of the crop?
    24a – a storm in a …?
    16d – what do you act like when ‘skylarking’?
    That should get you going…

  22. Thanks for the above discussion and hints – I’m still stuck on a few things (and wasn’t helped by a having a ONE FOAL rather than a ONE COLT town!), any help with:

    18d – I had MAN-HOUR changed to CHILD-HOUR in the grid – but was wondering where the MHOUR comes from – I could only come up with enaMOURed (endless keen)?

    29a – understand the ending, but how do you get the RAIL?

    Completely stuck on 20a, 30a and 23d.


  23. Sam, the rail is a species of water bird – there’s a Chestnut Rail, a Lewin’s Rail…

  24. 20a: Olympic swimmer form the early 70s, sounds like what camels do (and 14a is in the camel family)
    30a: What sort of hole does a soldier dig?
    23d: The definition is “fine”, and the common three-letter spinner is in there. Used to be a brand of sliced bread.
    As for 18d, I’m calling the H as a genuine DA boo-boo

  25. Definitely one for the Pantheon (aside from a few lame clues). Initially I couldn’t understand why some were shorter and some longer. Once getting 1D (which took a while), then “minor change” suddenly made sense and googling a Wiki -list of baby animals helped a lot. I can’t explain the H in 18D either.

  26. In spite of all the comments, I can’t work out 18D. I’ve got the first 3 letter word ending in I then I’ve got a space and D. The comments on manhours I can’t fit in? I can’t work out 4A either and the [9,5] letter guide throws me when there are only 9 spaces so I don’t know if I am looking for two words or one. Sometimes I am really disheartened by DA .

  27. Thanks to a few of the comments above I’m almost there. Well below my usual speed, and still having problems with 7D and 13A. Any hints welcome.

  28. Dave R 28A is First Mate [Adam +] around fine [ OK] = stimulate.
    13 A eludes me also

  29. Don’t give up, Conny! I’m struggling too….but I did figure out 4A. Think of a way of cutting meat that is also a flying insect…..but the answer is NOT the flying insect but a shorter word for something smaller/younger.
    Maybe you can help me with 2D, which no-one else has mentioned so is probably one of those ‘duh’ ones (like 17A and 20A)

  30. Thanks Jill for the encouragement. Does the 4A start with P? because i have for the cannibalists , not DOG EAT DOG but the younger version, but I can’t figure out how this is 20As unless a younger version of the type of breed? I have got an answer for 4A but I can’t get the way of cutting meat idea into it, so I guess I’m wrong. Does it end with K?

  31. In terms of value for money this week’s crossword was a ripper. I have spent hours and hours beavering away on it. (Should that be ‘kit’-ing away I wonder?)

    Just a thought regarding that missing ‘h’ in 18D:

    I had been reading the clue as ‘man-hour’ = ‘old-fashioned labour unit’. If instead ‘man-hour’ = ‘labour unit’ then could the ‘h’ = ‘old-fashioned’? The ‘h’ may at a pinch stand for ‘historical’ which could also mean old-fashioned?

    Of course, it could just as likely have been a stuff-up as others have posited…

  32. A terrific thematic DA this week which atones for last week’s no-brainer and greatly increased my solve-time average! Some comments:

    With a tiny tweak, 17A could have been one of those rare clues with a genuine double solution.

    For 1D, it may be that DA intended “in brewery” to act as the signpost. A bit obscure, but if so, the clue is just a partial &lit. It’s more misleading to put the ! on a partial &lit clue than not, in my view, so I think he’s justified in omitting it here.

    Using MOUR(N) instead of enaMOURed. I’ve tried to find a way to save 18D but can’t do it. It looks like a blue which is a shame for an otherwise great grid.

    The young of the llama and the hawk were new ones on me – cria is not in my dictionary.

  33. Thanks, Conny. I wouldn’t have thought of the answer to 7D as a synonym for ‘stimulate’, but I suppose in some contexts…

  34. And, thanks to a spot of googling I seem to have 13A. Had never heard of Captain Pierce. After last week’s disclosure of my ignorance of Mad Men, I’ll have to change my TV viewing habits. Interesting thing about the ‘little creature’ word in this clue is that it used to start with ‘n’ like orange and apron, but the ‘n’ transferred itself to the preceding indefinite article

  35. Am a beer drinker from Melbourne and never heard of little creatures brewery! Not being able to get 1D without the above discussion made it very difficult. Perhaps when everything depends on the understanding of one clue, it could refrain from relying on something as obscure as this.
    2D I have Cowchime becomes Calfchime. Cow from milk but I have no idea what the rest of it is about.
    Still stuck on 3D, 9A 12A. Presume 12A is some Californian resort LA something, but there are heaps of resorts that might fit. Without the others that intersect this I’m really stuck.

    Dave 13 A Hawkeye Pierce character from MASH. Ex PM is Bob Hawk. The solver of the puzzle is me = I Homophone eye. Replace Hawk with its baby EYAS. This one threw me as it was the first one I got and Hawkeye still fits. Ruined any chance I had of getting 6D and 7D for quite some time, even after I’d worked out the little creatures bit. Hadn’t realised that 13A was one of the funny ones at the time.
    Can anyone explain the pitched this road bit in 27A? I get road =RD in the middle of it (or maybe anagram of Road with HIS around it??)

  36. Thanks Dave….had forgotten about that (TV) Captain Pierce!
    Just a few more to solve now, have found some hints here, but not there yet!
    Have 18D with hints and guesswork, but no idea how it works!

  37. nn, 27A not so complicated! just a 7 letter anagram! (Sometimes the clues are quite straightforward….not often!)

  38. nn, what do Marge Simpson, the lead singer of the B52’s and Patsy from Ab Fab have in common? (27A)

  39. thanks JD, I had the answer, just couldn’t work out how it fitted the clue. Was messing around with RD instead of ROAD and trying to see how that belonged in pitched. This after messing around with BHIVES and R from road. Get it now (and kicking myself!)
    Still no idea on 9A, 12A and 3D though

  40. phew!
    I’m stuck with 9A and 3D too…..but thought it was just me as no-one else mentioned them!…..had to google to get 12A…never heard of it!

  41. Wow! This is taking a lot of the weekend, even if I’m enjoying it. Stuck on two: 2D and 9A. They’re probably not the hardest ones, but nothing jumps into my head with these. Any clues appreciated.

  42. @SM):2D the meaning is MILK, which you squeeze to get out if a…it’s slang.
    9A is the opposite of keeping a secret (MUM) and DOWN.

  43. 9A – the opposite of ‘keeps mum’ and ‘down’. ‘Boosts’ is the definition – think of spin doctoring.
    2D – Definition is a slang term for ‘milk’. Wordplay is an abbreviation for ‘firm’, the ‘back end’ (last letter) of ‘drew’ and a slang term for ‘electricity’.

  44. SM) in 2d the definition is milk, 9a consists of 2 antonyms (contrarily).

    Jill 3d is a slang word for smuggler containing 2 other letters (from synthetic clothing)

    I also cannot explain the H in 18d – assume it must relate to “old fashioned”

    My vote for this crossword is definitely pantheon – loved the fact that the alterations made guessing from existing letters almost impossible & therefore having to work out every clue.

    Squab toed, one colt town, calf juice & kitten’s whiskers could all enter the vernacular of DA trippers everywhere – shibboleths (see article in Melbourne Age A2) for identifying DA fans at Manly parties (see other thread).

  45. Can anyone help me with 23D and I can’t work out 30A. I know a soldier’s hole was mentioned but apart from dugout and trench I can’t think of anything which would fit.

  46. @Ted: 12A: is a place in California – never heard of it but you have a jolly time there I expect. Hollywood is LA.
    15A: “Jack _____ could eat no fat”
    20A: Mark _____ – famous swimmer.
    21A: take EVE out of FEVERISH and then it’s an anagram.
    16D: there’s an animal in here who could be a gruff Billy.
    23D: Here’s a tip, it’s not the bottom.

  47. Thanks! I actually figured out 9A before looking here, and 3D, when explained is a ‘duh’!
    I can now do something else this weekend!

    Enjoyed the challenge of this one….but would never have been able to crack it without help with 1D.

  48. Ted
    one of the books of the NT but I just guessed it from clues I had. I don’t know how the clue works

  49. 15A is also a type of fish tat rhymes with hat.
    30A – see above for reply to Conny.
    16D – are you KIDding, have you heard of the Billy Goats Gruff?

  50. Jonathan: if 30A is FOXHOLE it doesn’t fit with my solution to 16D ACT THE [SMALL ] GOAT? Can it be CUB spelt with a K?
    22D looks very wierd and I can’t get a word at all.
    I am still very puzzled by 6D . It starts with a Q if my 4A is correct, which it seems to be.

  51. I was stuck on 22D for ages too, because it isn’t a word! It’s another one where part of the answer is replaced by a word for a young animal. I didn’t have a Q in 4A. 6D starts with S, which also the first letter of the second word in 4A.

  52. Thanks Jonathan.
    I’m still left with 4A and 22D.
    In 4A I think the second word is STEAK but I can’t make sense of the first word “stroke by post, say” + I don’t know !!
    22D looks like BUGCUB. Could this be the solution? Jill syas it isn’t a word [ above] but it doesn’t make sense to me.

  53. Re: 22A – they don’t have to be words – as others mentioned above – the answers are words then what fills the grid is altered and may not be. BUGCUB is correct.
    4A – Think of swimming again – a type of stroke?

  54. Hi, Conny
    Sounds like you are nearly there!
    Now try a swimming stroke?

  55. Hi Jill, is it as in dog paddle? I seem to have P_P_ which could be PUPS?
    and Jonathan: how does BUGCUB = Dread flu [ bug?] carry on ?

  56. no, not dog….flying insect/swimming stroke….then a name for a young one…P_P_ is right, you are so close now!

  57. Sorry Conny – went for a body surf in the Bondi waves. It’s BUG and BEAR with the BEAR becoming a CUB. FLU is BUG and CARRY ON is BEAR. So the DREAD is a BUGBEAR.

  58. Thanks Jonathan. Goodness I seem soooslow…
    So Jill, is it PUPA STEAK as in the little tacker of a butterfly?

  59. Conny, I hope so, that’s my answer!
    We’ll find out tomorrow, I’m guessing you are in Victoria too?

  60. As a teetotalitarian, I would not only ban alcohol but crossword clues about alcohol, too. Harsh, but fair.

  61. Oh well, I made it!![ Yes I am Victorian.]

    with lots of help.

    Thanks everyone.

  62. grant, “discussed” signifies a sound-alike, ‘low’ sounds like ‘lo’

  63. Thanks JG. Is this a standard signifier in cryptic crosswords, or just particular to DA?

  64. Signifiers are never standard with DA, whether homonym or anagram. A small sample of homonym signifiers would include “discussed”, “heard”, “auditory”, “in voice” and, in this crossword, “by phone”.

  65. Thanks JK. I’m new to cryptic crosswords, and although I can usually make some progress with The Age during the week, DA’s leave me dumbfounded!

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