The DA Trippers When only a DA cryptic will do…

1. 

   RB
   November 28th, 2009 - 22:51

   I have two problems:
   23A: I have EATS AWAY. I guess the direct definition is “erodes”, but the best I can do for the wordplay is:
   ruin = WASTE
   a ruin in recession = ETSAWA
   a ruin in recession engrossing a = EATSAWA
   yankee = Y this is the bit I don’t get
   Is that it?

   2D: What’s the connection between being 64 and the setting sun? If it’s merely a reference to getting old, it’s very tenuous.
2. 

   John Carney
   November 28th, 2009 - 23:02

   My problem is 13A. The answer is clearly APEX, but why?

   @RB: They were my conclusions: yankee = y; setting sun = old age = 64. Yes, very tenuous.
3. 

   RB
   November 28th, 2009 - 23:54

   John, for 13A I have AHEM. I think you’ll be able to work it out.
4. 

   TT
   November 29th, 2009 - 10:51

   Ahem.

   “Too blokey.”

   That was the contemptuous opinion of B who must be obeyed. Brothel, Cousins, rugby mecca, F1 champ.

   On the up side, she is a fan of a certain hit machine, which made the rest crossword as easy as Honey Pie.

   PS: Anyone know what’s the story with 21A?
5. 

   RB
   November 29th, 2009 - 10:59

   My explanation for 21a is somewhat laborious. First of all, I believe the answer is ROTS (but I could be wrong!). Explanation is:
   “Heavy defeats” = ROUTS
   “gutted 15-across” = “gutted at heart” means ROUTS=>ROTS
   “and 23-across” = “eats away” = ROTS
6. 

   JG
   November 29th, 2009 - 11:11

   RB, the answer is indeed ROTS. Worthy of gold with the use of ‘gutted’ to mean you take a letter out of another word, rather than the more usual ‘take the innards out of a word’.
7. 

   haiku
   November 29th, 2009 - 11:16

   RB – I believe you are spot on, and a good and complex clue it is. I got there eventually for 21A, albeit via trying for a while to do something with RATH, which is the letters of EAT removed from AT HEART (as in, EAT’s away from AT HEART).
8. 

   AS
   November 29th, 2009 - 15:20

   Does 3 down refer to the F1 button on a computer? If so, I still don’t understand F1 champ = button up. To champ is to bite down, which would apply a button press rather than a button up.

   Have I missed something and it really does refer to someone who drives motor cars?
9. 

   RB
   November 29th, 2009 - 15:41

   Jenson Button is a F1 driver and the world champ too, I believe! The bit I’m not sure about is that it would seem that “due” => UP, which I can’t quite accept yet.
10. 

    ML
    November 29th, 2009 - 22:07

    8A is CATHOUSE. but I have no good explanation… there is the ‘U’ in HOSE (pants… at least part of a suit) but why the cat ?
11. 

    RB
    November 29th, 2009 - 22:16

    8A wordplay, I think, is:
    you = THOU
    suit = CASE (as in the law)
    you dressed in suit = CA THOU SE
12. 

    AS
    November 29th, 2009 - 22:20

    you = thou is a bit of stretch, ain’t it?

    And what’s with the FOR A before the word BROTHEL?

    Is that two cases of bullshit?
13. 

    MF
    November 29th, 2009 - 23:00

    22A: is “sheltered” doing double duty here? as both a containment indicator AND part of the definition of “lee”? i’m confused…
14. 

    RB
    November 29th, 2009 - 23:39

    AS, re 8A: you=thou seems OK to me. It’s archaic (is that your beef?), but at least it’s accurate (2nd person singular subjective pronoun, so we’d use “you” nowadays). I agree with your objection about “for” or “for a” at the beginning of the clue – its only purpose seems to be to aid the surface reading.

    MF, re 22A: the function of “sheltered” has me confused too. Is it doing double duty? My brain’s hurting, but I’ve come up with this plausible (I hope) explanation:
    In the lee means on the sheltered side.
    So, “sheltered from wind” => in the lee
    So “tree sheltered from wind” => GUM in the LEE => LE GUM E
15. 

    John Carney
    November 30th, 2009 - 00:04

    RB, re 13A: Thanks. I would never have got that…
16. 

    Dave R
    November 30th, 2009 - 08:51

    Thanks, RB, for the explanation of 21A. I figured it had to be ‘rots’, but DA was too tricky for me with this one.
17. 

    Ian
    November 30th, 2009 - 10:22

    22a: RB is spot on, it is a gum in the lee, therefore sheltered from the wind. No extraneous words, no double duty, just neat.
    8a: “For a” is just permissible fill in words to allow for surface reading. No problem there. Thou = you is common in Shakespeare and the Mighty Thor. Perhaps he might have said “you old” but I don’t think it necessary.
18. 

    AS
    November 30th, 2009 - 14:40

    I reckon if the first or last word is not included in the definition, you’re breaking one of the sacrosanct cryptic crossword rules.

    And DA seems to have done that on a clue that’s not particularly well-constructed or clever.

    The thou = you I’m a bit dodgy about, but the “for a brothel” business crosses my dodginess line.
19. 

    AL
    November 30th, 2009 - 17:24

    re 8A: I really enjoyed this clue and don’t understand the gripes. “for” can be interpreted as “in order to get the word” which is quite precise….and that sets up the “you” = THOU dressed in “suit” = CASE….CATHOUSE. A nice little recipe.
20. 

    AS
    December 1st, 2009 - 10:20

    I’d say that to interpret “for” as “in order to get the word”, you’re doing something that isn’t really a definition and more akin to wordplay.

    A definition should not include wordplay or interpreting words as a collection of letters. That’s my beef.

    The you = thou thing is no big deal and not something I would have mentioned if not for the “for a brothel” thing.
21. 

    MF
    December 3rd, 2009 - 19:47

    Sorry, AS, but I agree 100% with AL.
22. 

    AS
    December 4th, 2009 - 10:32

    You know, if I actually solved 8A, I probably wouldn’t have said anything.

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