The Confusion (DA on the 30th/31st of October)

In the comments to this post, feel free to ask questions and have clues or answers revealed to you that are full of spoilers.

Update: Here’s what I’m still confused about:

5 down: Fuel up motor during strike to extend preliminary payment (10)
I’ve almost figured it out as up motor during strike to extend preliminary payment = up car during hit to extend preliminary payment = hracit to extend preliminary payment = anthracite = fuel.

The question: how does to extend preliminary payment = ante?

8 down: Wait as leader in African republic demoted fight (4, 5)
I worked this out as as leader in African republic demoted fight = as leader in Ghana demoted bout = hang about = wait.

Problem: what’s the anagram notifier for Ghana? Have I got this preliminary explanation completely wrong?

22 across: Change required in Japan to accept United Nation (6)
Somehow the answer is Sweden. How?

21 down: (crestfallen) 10-across loggers open vessels?
How does one arrive at vessels = ewers?

12 across: Cored apple, perhaps, cheers omelet (8)
I’m guessing I’m a variety of apple away from figuring out why frittata = omelet.

23 thoughts on “The Confusion (DA on the 30th/31st of October)

  1. Ant thoughts on the function of the word “upset” in 3d? I can’t work out what it’s doing there.

  2. Ian – the only thing I can think of is that it’s a down clue and so the “OR” which is read left-to-right needs to be up-set, ie set in an up-to-down manner. But that does seem a stretch.

    The other thought was that the “upset” could be a “dethroning” or a “death”.

    Perhaps “She follows victory for losing head” or “She follows victory for blowing top” would avoid the confusion?

  3. re 3D; Quite an intriguing clue. DA has done this sort of thing before, an overlapping or telescoping of elements of the clue. So we have ” she follows ” = SUCCESSOR (in a regal sense) then the word play WIN + OR = SUCCESSOR, then returning to the whole clue a SUCCESSOR is one who follows a win or upset ( in a sporting context…I’m thinking tennis or surfing here ). Anyway just my meanderings, would be nice to get a comment from DA man on this one.

  4. Re 3D: Not convinced at all. Obviously something had to go after the “or” to aid the surface reading. How about the all-purpose “…”, which can be used to mean absolutely nothing. Probably preferable to an as-yet unexplained “upset”.

    Now for my other confusions:
    7D: I see AL and haiku both rated this clue in the general comments. Please let me in on the explanation. I guess it must be OWL, but why?

    26D: I have REX here (after Rex Hunt, and sounds like “wrecks”). But what’s “on the ocean” about? I know he was/is into fishing – is that it?

  5. re 7D; ‘Ow did you miss this one RB? WHITECHAPEL= east end of London = cockney = drop aitches, so BAY gives (H)OWL a bird from Whitechapel. Not the first time DA
    ‘as used this ploy.

  6. The word ‘upset’ in 3D is the crossword-equivalent of a sponge left behind in a surgery patient.

    Ian is quite right, as are AL and RB. The word should have been removed before sewing up the final copy.

    Why ‘upset’ was there in the first place was originally I’d tried to make an ellipsis with 4D. I’d been playing with the idea of win [SUCCESS] and upset [reverse one part of the TREE wordplay].

    But that ploy fizzled, and I’d been flogging the […] tactic anyhow in recent weeks, so I re-sealed both clues and left the damn wettex behind! Am I upset? Of course. It’s shoddy. Almost suit-worthy.

    Thanks for the wake-up. I’ll strive to…um…’expunge’ any further cases of malpractice in this puzzle’s successors. Best, DA

  7. Thanks for the mea culpa, DA. I can stop racking my brains now.

    As for 7D: guilty as charged, AL. As you say, DA ‘as done that several times before.

  8. Got the owl OK, assumed the upset was irrelevant (although that’s usually a dangerous assumption), in fact sailed through the whole thing fairly well except for 24D. Totally stumped still.

  9. As I see this morning, Ian, you are right. But ‘consumed by’ = ‘into’? I’m into DA’s crosswords, but ‘consumed by’ them would seem a tad strong. But then, I should have got ‘dope’ = ‘info’, then I might have had a chance.

  10. 21D: (crestfallen) 10-across loggers open vessels?

    A logger “hews” wood and is therefore a “hewer”.

    HEWER with the “crest fallen” = EWER, which is an urn, a pitcher, or a vessel.

    I’m not 100% sure why the “open” is needed. Is a ewer a vessel without a lid?

    Dictionary: “A pitcher, especially a decorative one with a base, an oval body, and a flaring spout.”

  11. re 12A; apple perhaps = FRUIT ,” cored” gives FRIT and cheers =TATA. booboom, FRITTATA. Quite a nice clue.

  12. 9A: Roger in late 60s UK band?

    Yes, Yes was formed in 1968, but calling them a 60s band is like calling U2 a 70s band.

  13. Re 22A – this one drove me to the edge and I’m still not sure if my explanation is right, but according to wiki the sen was a Japanese coin taken out of circulation in the 1950s. If so, then change required in japan = SEN, to accept united = WED giving nation = SWEDEN

  14. Re 22A: That was my explanation too, Reecie.

    Re 5D: “preliminary payment” = ANTE (as in the “pot” at poker)
    “extend” is the indicator to “insert into” (DA has used this before).

    Re 8D: It’s not just an anagram of GHANA. The leader is demoted i.e. the first letter is moved downwards – so it becomes HANGA.

  15. AS

    8 down: Wait as leader in African republic demoted fight (4, 5)

    Problem: what’s the anagram notifier for Ghana? Have I got this preliminary explanation completely wrong?

    The “leader” of the African republic, in this case Ghana, is “demoted” to a lesser prominence in the answer. In other words the G moves from the first letter so that GHANA becomes HAN G A.

  16. Ummm… what RB said.

    5 down: Fuel up motor during strike to extend preliminary payment (10)

    The question: how does to extend preliminary payment = ante?

    An “ante” is a bet to allow you to bet. In other words it is a preliminary payment you must make before you are allowed to play, say, poker. The phrase “ante up” means place your entry bets.

  17. Any ideas as to how the answer to 24D is “into”?? Have seen the result in Sat SMH but still can’t figure it out. Liked the Spoonerism of 20A. Enjoy reading everyone’s responses.

  18. Manda, re 24D: Ian and Dave R discussed this earlier – see above. But in case you’re still puzzled, try this:
    Consumed by = into
    dope = info
    strongly = f (think forte (literally stongly) in music)
    time = t
    So “strongly lost to time” means change “f” to “t”, so that “info” becomes “into”

    As Dave R says, “consumed by” is a bit strong for “into”. But I suppose you could think of “consumed by” as meaning contained by or within, or more simply just inside or into.

  19. I really should have figured out at least a couple of those!

    Thanks for the help peoples.

    As for 24D, I think that can be explained with what I’m assuming is slang or at least non-formal: amongst my generation anyway, it’s very common to say “I’m really into Prince” or “I’m really into her”, which is more or less “I’m really consumed by Prince” or “I’m really consumed by her”.

  20. Re the non-formal usage of “into”: being “into” something doesn’t quite conjure up the same obsession-like connotation as “consumed by”. However, if you also add the word “really”, I would agree that “really into” is very close to “consumed by”, whilst “really consumed by” smacks of over-exaggeration (sic)! But I hasten to add that this is only an observation, not a complaint.

  21. Thanks for that RB; I’ll have to pay closer attention to what’s written before!

  22. I thought it was an excellent crossword this week and nearly got it all out solo. Only missed 24D, which I had no idea about until those last comments. I was a bit hazy on successor too.

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